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  1. #1
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    Default Rationals, leadership, and politics

    NT's are the types who put the most stock into being competent. Keirsey states that NTJ's enjoy organizing and coordinating, and mentions how they often become leaders. However, while that is certainly true, in many instances Rationals exercize a type of leadership that may only prove adequate at certain levels. It is not the typical kind of leadership expected in common situations.

    Rationals have vision, strategy, resilience, independence and competence. On the other hand, Rationals are not especially concerned about what people think about them, social conventions, hierarchies, and people's feelings. In other words, Rationals are not political.

    I think that the Rationals attempting to become political end up downplaying their strengths in the process. The political strength of Rationals lies in the ability they have of not getting swayed by people's opinons. They must win people over through their integrity, competence and strength.

  2. #2
    Luctor et emergo Ezra's Avatar
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    So if the NT's (I assume you're thinking more of the NTJs than of the NTPs) leadership style isn't conventional, how does it manifest itself in the NT?

  3. #3
    Senior Member Mr Galt's Avatar
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    Every politician fakes certain qualities to get elected. They always talk about how often they go to church or how happy their families are or how much they care about blue collar workers or how humble they are. The list goes on, but I'm sure everybody understands what I'm getting at.
    But sir, your opinion is wrong.
    TANSTAAFL!

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    you are right mippus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Galt View Post
    Every politician fakes certain qualities to get elected. They always talk about how often they go to church or how happy their families are or how much they care about blue collar workers or how humble they are. The list goes on, but I'm sure everybody understands what I'm getting at.
    ... indeed. And that has become such a strong convention that it is close to impossible to step out of it...
    Vanitas vanitatum omnia vanitas

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    Senior Member Mr Galt's Avatar
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    To add to mine, one of the reasons Hillary Clinton is so hated is that she is bad at faking those things, and comes off as the ruthless, "do-whatever-it-takes-even-if-everybody-hates-you-for-it" leader. The problem for her is that she's running as a Democrat, the bleeding heart party. They don't so much like ruthlessness.
    But sir, your opinion is wrong.
    TANSTAAFL!

  6. #6
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    If you can't be political then you aren't a good leader, with only a few exceptions.
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

  7. #7
    Senior Member Mr Galt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    If you can't be political then you aren't a good leader, with only a few exceptions.
    That is not true. Once you are the leader politics don't matter, so long as you know what you're doing. It's getting to that position in the first place that requires a certain amount of politics/diplomacy.
    But sir, your opinion is wrong.
    TANSTAAFL!

  8. #8
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Galt View Post
    That is not true. Once you are the leader politics don't matter, so long as you know what you're doing. It's getting to that position in the first place that requires a certain amount of politics/diplomacy.
    By very few exceptions, I meant the very few positions which have absolute authority. Leaders are always accountable to other leaders and their subordinates.

    Example. Let's say I take over a country by some means. I may have used politics to get there. According to your statement, I would no longer need politics, as I can simply rule by force and ability. Then one day, all the people I pissed off coup me. Whoops.

    I can think of no position where one is a leader and at least some measure of diplomacy is not necessary. Maintaing power is just as difficult as acquiring it.

    The world is not a meritocracy, as much as many people wish it were.
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

  9. #9
    Senior Member Priam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    By very few exceptions, I meant the very few positions which have absolute authority. Leaders are always accountable to other leaders and their subordinates.

    Example. Let's say I take over a country by some means. I may have used politics to get there. According to your statement, I would no longer need politics, as I can simply rule by force and ability. Then one day, all the people I pissed off coup me. Whoops.

    I can think of no position where one is a leader and at least some measure of diplomacy is not necessary. Maintaing power is just as difficult as acquiring it.
    Bingo. Politics, as a branch of human development and skill, arches over many more fields than simply running for office. It is, just like successful management, getting things done through other people. Unlike management, however, it must rest on the "soft" powers of constituency, compromise and demagoguery. Whether one is dictator for life or transparently elected President, one must simultaneously appease one's power base while co-opting, defusing or demoralizing those in opposition. Add to this a layer of constant flux in who your supporters on a particular issue are and it begins to resemble tapdancing on quicksand.

    The one built-in piece of politics in certain nation-states that remains the salvation of consistent government through stormy times is the tradition of authority. What makes the nations of mid-Africa different from Western Europe or even Russia? Many African nations have no tradition of national authority that they can respect, only a series of strongmen constantly in flux. This means that, when said strongman is ousted, the system is destroyed with him. As well, and more pertinent to this thread, traditional respect for authority gives current leaders a margin for error among their people, so that any non-disastrous mistake can be weathered and accepted rather than used as an excuse for yet another coup. Yet, in the long run, a certain adroitness with politics must come into play, or at best the person in question will simply sink into "non-entity".
    "The subject chooses to sit in shadow and search for wisdom by reflecting upon his trial. The problem is not that he is cold and wet, but that cold and wet seems problematic, so he embraces those hardships in order to best them."

  10. #10
    Senior Member Mr Galt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    Example. Let's say I take over a country by some means. I may have used politics to get there. According to your statement, I would no longer need politics, as I can simply rule by force and ability. Then one day, all the people I pissed off coup me. Whoops.
    If everybody is still pissed AFTER you have done what you wanted/needed to do then you failed as a leader anyway. Obviously you made the wrong move. If, once you have power, you make the right move, even if it goes against public opinion, eventually people look back and say "Oh. I guess he was right" and go about their lives normally.

    And they're more likely to just let you do whatever it is you want without opposition next time (perfect for when you round people up and put them in camps)
    But sir, your opinion is wrong.
    TANSTAAFL!

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