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  1. #11
    Senior Member bcubchgo's Avatar
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    yeah that's probably true. That's a good way to describe it.
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  2. #12
    S Saiyan God Mace's Avatar
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    I'd first gotten ESTJ on a personality test, although I became pretty uncertain if that was my actual type as I read into it. Afterwards, I'd started getting ENTJ, of which the description fit me well. I tend to be informative, and have a natural *slice* at what I do. Unlike ESTJs who tend to be methodological (as someone already had pointed out), ENTJs aren't like this.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakysage View Post
    ESTJs have some sort of predictability in the things they say. It usually bears the same old things that have been said over often before. Usually a more traditional approach to how things are being done.
    If that is true, then I believe I know an ESTJ in disguise.

  4. #14
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    The difference is that after giving a command, if the factual circumstances change, upon being informed of this, ENTJs should adapt and change the overall strategy to one more fitting the exigent circumstances. ESTJs wonder why the hell you haven't done what you were told to in the first place, and insist that a decision has been made, and that you're to do it, without question.

  5. #15
    ThatGirl
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    From what I have seen from ESTJs they try to pull everyone into some Hirearchy where people are judged and placed upon their perceptions for how things should be. They are ridged in their understanding, and will even get vicious if you do not play by their rules.

    The problem I have always had with ESTJs is that we get along rather well to start out. They aren't overly sensitive and can joke around. The first time we have to collaborate on something, we instantly become at odds. They do not like to go about things in a new or risqué way, and I find what they are doing to be working harder not smarter.

    Then it is war.

    I will also add, that they seem to see their hard working efforts as some sort of trophy for completing a task. Like they have the idea that if you put in your time you face the set backs and you do what needs to be done, it is somehow more valuable than just doing it with ease. It is really weird.

    Like nothing in life is easy, suck it up and take the hits. I find that at odds with my way of dealing with things. Which is maximum payoff with the least consequence.

  6. #16
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    @ the OP: Love it! I totally agree.

    Now, for other responses:

    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecttcelfeR View Post
    I agree. That's the point of Si. Consistency.
    "Consistency" gives one message. "Same thing over and over again" says another. I'm gonna be picky about wording, like Ace was, and say that I would take the latter as an insult too, just because of all the things I would like to be, boring is not one of them. Same thing over and over = repetitive = uninteresting. I love talking about new and interesting things. I'd like to think that sometimes I have unique insights on certain situations, and that that's not specific to ENTJs. Seems a little like sensor bias to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by metasapiens View Post
    ESTJs like to command and obey, ENTJs like to command and command.
    Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by bcubchgo View Post
    nonono. I disagree. ENTJ's are usually *more* tactful than ESTJ's, unless it is a stressful event. ESTJ's have way more blinders on, coming across as obstinate and just oppressively commanding. In my opinion, ENTJ's dictate much more frequently with a sense of fairness and balance, instead of purely authoritative command. if things are not getting accomplished, both types can be completely tactless though. More often than not though an ENTJ has much less of a superiority complex.
    Stereotyping alert! Seriously. This post comes across as being based on one or two unhealthy ESTJs, and not based on the actual tendencies of the type. Oppressively commanding? Purely authoritative command? Not as fair as ENTJs??? I mean, if there's one thing ESTJs care about, it's fairness. That cannot be denied. Fairness is a value that I live by, like honesty and dignity. If someone told me I was being dictatorial and unfair, and I saw that they were right, I would be mortified and change my leadership style as soon as possible, and I think most ESTJs would do the same given those circumstances.

    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    In other words, pretty much anything else is the "wrong" way to do things.
    Wrong unless proven otherwise, for the record. If an ESTJ goes up to you and says "Why are you doing things this way? It's supposed to go THAT way", they're not asking a rhetorical question, and they're expecting you to answer and make your case. If other ESTJs are like me, they really care about UNDERSTANDING people. Whenever an ESTJ gets frustrated with someone "not being rational", or "being stupid", or "not having common sense", it's not always because they're doing something wrong. Often, it's because they're frustrated at that person doing something that makes absolutely no sense to the ESTJ. There's nothing frustrating about it once it gets explained to them, and once they see that it was the right choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    Unlike ESTJs who tend to be methodological (as someone already had pointed out), ENTJs aren't like this.
    Very true. And as other people said before, ESTJs are more prone towards acting within established institutions/norms/what-have-you, whereas an ENTJ would be just as likely to make their own. I read something a while ago, about how one big difference between ESTJs and ENTJs shows up when you ask them a vague question. The ENTJ will decide for themselves what the question means and then answer it accordingly, whereas the ESTJ will be uncomfortable with that, and will want to know how the question was MEANT to be answered before they can answer it.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    I will also add, that they seem to see their hard working efforts as some sort of trophy for completing a task. Like they have the idea that if you put in your time you face the set backs and you do what needs to be done, it is somehow more valuable than just doing it with ease. It is really weird.

    Like nothing in life is easy, suck it up and take the hits. I find that at odds with my way of dealing with things. Which is maximum payoff with the least consequence.
    I wonder if that's just the ESTJs you know? It's even an ESTJ stereotype, to care a lot about efficiency. I fit that stereotype, for sure, to the point that I agree with you that those ESTJs are weird, for thinking that way.
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  7. #17
    ThatGirl
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    I wonder if that's just the ESTJs you know? It's even an ESTJ stereotype, to care a lot about efficiency. I fit that stereotype, for sure, to the point that I agree with you that those ESTJs are weird, for thinking that way.
    Maybe. It is that whole "That is life, get over it and perform your duty," type mentality. Drives me crazy. I've encountered it IRL with any ESTJ who has been in a position of authority over me. It has NEVER ended well.


    I should add when they say "That is life," my first thought is, "No that is how you are going about it. It could be done differently, and really doesn't HAVE to be like that at all."

  8. #18
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    I should add when they say "That is life," my first thought is, "No that is how you are going about it. It could be done differently, and really doesn't HAVE to be like that at all."
    Oh god I HATE being in that situation. And I've been in situations like that a LOT. And I usually end up having to walk away, because it's obvious that those people are so set in their ways that they won't listen to reason.
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



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    want to ask me something? go for it!

  9. #19
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    ENTJs are weirder (when you get to know them). Less tactful, but better with people over a longer timespan (less imposing). Probably though the most noticeable factor is weirdness (or lack thereof).
    Really? Weird in what way?

    Quote Originally Posted by metasapiens View Post
    ESTJs like to command and obey, ENTJs like to command and command.
    This is an interesting point. I would agree and say ESTJs like to lead by example and tend to fall naturally and unintentionally into leadership positions, whereas ENTJs seek leadership positions out because they desire the ability to shape things according to their own vision.

    I wonder why it is that ENTJs are comparatively more proactive in this sense, where ESTJs are more go with the flow.
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  10. #20
    Senior Member bcubchgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Stereotyping alert! Seriously. This post comes across as being based on one or two unhealthy ESTJs, and not based on the actual tendencies of the type. Oppressively commanding? Purely authoritative command? Not as fair as ENTJs??? I mean, if there's one thing ESTJs care about, it's fairness. That cannot be denied. Fairness is a value that I live by, like honesty and dignity. If someone told me I was being dictatorial and unfair, and I saw that they were right, I would be mortified and change my leadership style as soon as possible, and I think most ESTJs would do the same given those circumstances.
    Herein lies the major headbutt between ENTJ and ESTJ. I do not believe I am stereotyping to the degree you think I am. I am just being honest about the ESTJ's that I have met and experienced. They usually immediately turn me off with their incessant need to be "correct" all the time, as well as their need to tell others how "incorrect" they are. I'm not saying that there are not evolved ESTJ's and perhaps you are one of them, but most of them have an impenetrable barrier that prevents out of the box ideas from seeping in due to prejudices. I find it baffling. I need life to be more open ended.
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