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Thread: What's the best way of deciding between INTJ and ENTJ?

  1. #31


    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    I don't have my computer speakers with me - and won't for a while - but I really want to see what Icahn says in this video. Can someone outline the main bullet points of his speech?
    I agree with him completely. The ENTJ are executives imho is bollocks. ENTJ's end up becoming car salesmen or end up owning little stores. The vast majority of 'visionaries' and 'leaders' don't run fortune 1000 companies.

    Icahn says this. Basically the CEO is a survivor. He will never hire someone that is smarter then him. As time goes by the people slowly get promoted and so on and so on. These guys never making waves or going against the flow. He likens them to your fraternity president. A likeable guy, everyone knows him and he's understanding and easy to get along with. And he's a survivor he has always won and these frat presidents and what not have to get elected so he knows whats up.

    So as time goes, the CEO keeps him along, and then when the CEO retires he puts in the guy right below him who is a bit dumber then him as CEO. To survive and make it in the corporate beuracracy you never want to hire people smarter then you, God forbid your boss sees your subordinates and fires you and gives him your job.. I've been in the corporate beuracy and I'm the same way becuase you CAN NOT make waves. If you do you get booted out. Nobody wants change, the structure is there and the companies are already generating tremendous amount of cash flow (100's of millions a quarter). To become CEO, just keep it chill, relaxed and don't make waves.

    Btw, I've fired quite a few ENTJs. They want to disrupt the status quo so we fire them. Take that shit to a startup. And they scare most people. Esp the ones with a strong E. All in your face and it upsets people's regular chi energy. I remember actually telling someone "you wanna be a hero, you can't do that here. Go to a startup".

  2. #32


    True though.

  3. #33


    And FWIW, I take the advice that Carl Icahn gives them some poe-dunk arm chair researched/psychologist.

    TBH, I'd say way more executives are hidden INTJ's then ENTJ's.

    A True ENTJ is annoying as hell in the corporate world. Where us INTJ's that have developed our E's are much better. We can stay in the shadows and feel everything out, keep tabs on everyone despite faking an interest and just wait for the right timing. That goes with the whole getting to be everyones friend so when the time comes for votes we get them.

    The dark side of the force some considerable to be unnatural

    I wonder what Larry Ellison is. It's hard analyzing some people because a lot of us can hide who the real person is

  4. #34
    Senior Member Array INTPness's Avatar
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    Jan 2009


    After my post last night, I found this transcript, where he spoke at Yale. Very interesting read.

    I have to say, though, this stuff goes against what I had previously thought. The ENTJ's I've known have not been ones to "stir the pot" or upset the status quo. Yes, they are innovative and that requires thinking outside the box, but they also want structure and in most cases they seem to respect the structures that are already in place. They are also usually smart enough to realize that if they stir the pot too much, it won't be good for their career. What I'm saying is that ENTJ's seem very capable of playing by the rules - at least moreso than ENTP's and INTP's. The word iconoclast is practically synonomous with these 2 types (ENTP/INTP). If you tell us the way you want something done, we automatically go fishing for a different way of doing it. We don't like the status quo at all. Yes, ENTJ's can be a bit "in your face", but they are very capable of getting into an organization and rising to the top.

    I know 3 ENTJ's, for instance, that do the following jobs: One is the president of a university. Another is a dean of a college. And another is an executive at UCLA. They might have ideas of how things could be made better, but they certainly aren't "upsetting the status quo" or drawing a bunch of attention to themselves. They've always been the competent ones from what I've seen - the ones who should be CEO's.

    So, what types are these lazy, good-for-nothing CEO's that Icahn is talking about? I can't be convinced that they are sensors. S's are not leading Fortune 500 companies. So, if they aren't ENTJ's, they must be ENTP for the most part?

    The competent CEO types that I've known have all been ENTJ and ENTP. One ENTP CEO was much like Icahn describes - he was never even at work - once he wasn't there for 3 months straight - next thing we knew, he was gone. In an instant. But, I have known ENTP's who did well in these types of positions. I certainly don't see ENTJ's as car salesmen. I see them as competent people who can work well within a system, so long as they have ethics and they tame their aggression a bit.
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.

    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

  5. #35


    People usually don't last as ENTJ's for very long. They change (thats' one reason why there are so few in the population). INTJ and ENTJ are two types of people that need a certain type of environment to retain those characteristics.

    ENTJ's who doesn't make waves don't have strong E's imho. Cause if you have the strong E and you also have the NTJ you can see things very analytically (we are loosing X dollars here, lets' fix this, we can land this big contract let's do it), if the guy has a strong E he'll mention this to someone or try to get the ball rolling in this direction.. If his E is less developed he'll probably let it pass.

    I dunno, I just don't think most executives are E types. If you look at most of the executives and watch them talk everything they say is very rehersed. I mean they've practiced those lines dozens of times in front of the mirroir, you can tell.

    Eric Schmidt the CEO of google; he used to have massive fear of speaking in front of audiences. He took classes at community college back when he was at Sun to try to help him get over this fear. I was also the same, very afraid to talk in public but I forced myself to handle it.

    Now regular people can never tell that I was afraid to speak in public/large crowds. The only type of people taht can tell are people that have gone through the same problems and can pickup the very discerte ways we hide things. Slight variations in tone, body language and facial movement.

  6. #36


    I dunno even know why I bothered chiming in on this. Anyways, we INTJ's kick ass. Just gotta work on developing our E side a bit. I'm actually honestly trying to mature out of being an INTJ. As I've gotten older I'm really starting to see the world isn't so black and white. Before I always thought it was, you do this this and that and you get this result but that just isn't the case.

    Life is often not fair, luck plays a major role and there are so many factors out of your control.
    You can make straight A's all through university but the guy who's dad is partner at some investment banking firm is gonna get the job over you no matter what.

    For an *NTJ that's hard to swallow cause it doesn't make logical sense.

  7. #37


    Quote Originally Posted by stormrider View Post
    For an *NTJ that's hard to swallow cause it is not right and fair

    What do you work with stormrider and how old are you. +++

    Do you know your wingtype and so on.

    You should or could make a introduction thread to yourself in the.. umm introductions area..

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