[NT] What's the best way of deciding between INTJ and ENTJ?

[The Ü™]

You ask yourself far too many questions. How many threads like this have you started on several forums? Why don't you just type yourself xxTJ?

Maybe he's a P -- so indecisive about his type!

 

[INTJMom]

You ask yourself far too many questions. How many threads like this have you started on several forums? Why don't you just type yourself xxTJ?

He wants to know.

 

[cdal233]

A simple way I try to distinguish between ENTJ's and INTJ's is to determine whether they focus more toward a goal or toward a plan. Both types are goal oriented planners, but I find INTJ's want to flesh out more details of their plan before beginning and are less likely to deviate from their plan once they've started (although they will come up with a ton of contingency plans to go with it). ENTJ's focus more on the goal and are much quicker to change details of their plan when they see it isn't working. ENTJ's keep their focus more on the goal than the plan. Also ENTJ's seem compelled to execute their plans themselves, while INTJ's would be content to have someone else execute their plan assuming they could find a person that they would trust to do it.

Another criteria is how people affect your energy level. Does being around a lot of people drain you over time or energize you?

Going into more detail on the idea in a slightly different direction...


ENTJ's in my life tend to NEED lots of social interaction. They can't go without it, and they follow the biggest social influences within their environment. This excess interaction tends to bloat their intellectual confidence due to most people who seek out lots of social interaction are not NT's. They usually become good people to know (from a power sense) to advance within the environment, regardless of their given skill set.

INTJ's in my life have the ability to put on a good social face if need be, so it can be hard to tell that they are not extroverted. However, you can tell if you're around them long enough because they really don't need it, they can just be good at it to reach their predetermined goal. They tend to keep their arrogance to themselves, and don't reveal it in a way that is obvious if you're not looking for it. They are only good people to know (from a power sense) if you have the same goals of social interaction.

 

[creativeRhino]

My husband was ENTJ - and the thing that others observed was that we both saw the big picture and had good planning/goal setting skills but that when it came to execution the ENTJ had to be in charge and govern the speed. I am more happy to follow IF the leader is competent. I have a bit more of a detail and contingency plan focus - and a more critical eye for why something may or may not work - so I was an "irritating blessing" when it came to debugging and reworking a plan that was proving less than workable. He was glad I could spot the problem, but hated that he hadn't seen it first. He was happy to get some of my projects off the ground too, or coach me through the more extraverted behaviour a task may have required. I tend to view plans with caution - a lets see approach, whereas he was generally totally convinced that his plans were spot on. Any self doubt was very well hidden!

 

[Ezra]

Another criteria is how people affect your energy level. Does being around a lot of people drain you over time or energize you?

It tends to energise me. In fact, it actually takes me quite a while to get fully pumped up enough for social interactions, so I need quite a lot of time to socialise and interact. I can go hours thinking "what the hell; I'm clearly an introvert, because I'm simply not feeling the life of this party", without realising that nothing's happening because I'm not making it happen. I'm a force of nature, so when those around me are too gentle, I go along with it and I become almost completely passive and energiless. I'd say social interactions charge me, definitely.

I'm too impatient with detail work.

Doesn't this contradict what Laser said about INTJs being more detail orientated?

How old are you?

Eighteen.

You ask yourself far too many questions. How many threads like this have you started on several forums? Why don't you just type yourself xxTJ?

He wants to know.

Basically, Maverick, it's like a hobby, pinning myself down in a system. Everyone likes to do it. And because I'm pretty young, I do it a lot more. It's more entertaining for me. But I want to settle on something; I don't want to keep changing. And if I find something wrong with something, I'll want to correct it.

The reason I won't just type myself as xxTJ is because I know I'm not an ISTJ, and as I said, I'm not an ESTJ, so I can only be an INTJ or an ENTJ. And I may as well be certain as to which type I am.

 

[The_Liquid_Laser]

It tends to energise me. In fact, it actually takes me quite a while to get fully pumped up enough for social interactions, so I need quite a lot of time to socialise and interact. I can go hours thinking "what the hell; I'm clearly an introvert, because I'm simply not feeling the life of this party", without realising that nothing's happening because I'm not making it happen. I'm a force of nature, so when those around me are too gentle, I go along with it and I become almost completely passive and energiless. I'd say social interactions charge me, definitely.

You sound like an ENTJ to me. Also as INTJMom has said, you seem to pick avatars that reflect an ENTJ personality.

Agree with The Liquid Laser (how may I abbreviate your nick, if possible? Laser? or TLL? or just in full?).

For the most it doesn't matter to me as long as I can identify that you are referring to me. Aside: Are you and aelen identical or fraternal twins?

 

[Maverick]

The reason I won't just type myself as xxTJ is because I know I'm not an ISTJ, and as I said, I'm not an ESTJ, so I can only be an INTJ or an ENTJ. And I may as well be certain as to which type I am.

The problem lies in the adherence to the assumption made by the MBTT that people must necessarily show a preference for a behavior on each of the 4 dimensions. In reality, research shows most people are average on them. The inability you have of setting on a type is due to the inherent weaknesses of the typing system. You are simply experiencing its deeper contradictions and failings.

 

[Rasputin]

I had the same problem deciding between ENTJ and INTJ. What settled it for me was that I am shy, which is different from introversion. Now that I'm older - I'm 28 - I've worked through a lot of my shyness and can be myself more in public. Also, I'm not an extreme extravert. I'd say around 60-70%. Once I decided on ENTJ, the pieces fell into place. My impartience for results, my aggressiveness with argumentation, just aren't found in the INTJs I've communicated with. I also began to realize how energetic and hyper I am (and come across as to other people), and how much it bothers me to sit still all day at my job because it causes me to feel understimulated and restless, and how easily lonely I get when left alone for a few hours...my advice is to not look at extreme ends of the spectrum or stereotypes, but rather at the fundamental building blocks of types and traits.

I also found the function descriptions helpful, isolating them from type. Once I really looked at the differences between Te and Ni, I realized that I use Te more.

 

[stormrider]

I know this is a dead thread, but I joined this forum to post on this.

What you have to realize is that the 'entj' way of doing things doesn't work with everyone. Tbh, I would classify myself as an INTJ but I understand that with different people you have to use different strategies. Sometimes we have to be extraverted, sometimes we have to be dull, etc..

And I think the whole "all executives" are ENTJ's is complete bullshit. Most of the executives I know are like homer simpson. When I was working in corporate america I let go of the NT bit and just relaxed and enjoyed. When you're on your own doing your own business you have to take on a different persona because you can't leave it up to chance.

Carl Icahn has seen more CEO's come and go then anyone, watch this talk he gives

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcWg4897yIM

For every ENTJ partner at McKinsey there's at least 200 laid back CEO's of fortune 1000 companies that got in the way Carl Icahn says

 

[INTPness]

I know this is a dead thread, but I joined this forum to post on this.

What you have to realize is that the 'entj' way of doing things doesn't work with everyone. Tbh, I would classify myself as an INTJ but I understand that with different people you have to use different strategies. Sometimes we have to be extraverted, sometimes we have to be dull, etc..

And I think the whole "all executives" are ENTJ's is complete bullshit. Most of the executives I know are like homer simpson. When I was working in corporate america I let go of the NT bit and just relaxed and enjoyed. When you're on your own doing your own business you have to take on a different persona because you can't leave it up to chance.

Carl Icahn has seen more CEO's come and go then anyone, watch this talk he gives

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcWg4897yIM

For every ENTJ partner at McKinsey there's at least 200 laid back CEO's of fortune 1000 companies that got in the way Carl Icahn says

I don't have my computer speakers with me - and won't for a while - but I really want to see what Icahn says in this video. Can someone outline the main bullet points of his speech?

 

[stormrider]

I don't have my computer speakers with me - and won't for a while - but I really want to see what Icahn says in this video. Can someone outline the main bullet points of his speech?

I agree with him completely. The ENTJ are executives imho is bollocks. ENTJ's end up becoming car salesmen or end up owning little stores. The vast majority of 'visionaries' and 'leaders' don't run fortune 1000 companies.

Icahn says this. Basically the CEO is a survivor. He will never hire someone that is smarter then him. As time goes by the people slowly get promoted and so on and so on. These guys never making waves or going against the flow. He likens them to your fraternity president. A likeable guy, everyone knows him and he's understanding and easy to get along with. And he's a survivor he has always won and these frat presidents and what not have to get elected so he knows whats up.

So as time goes, the CEO keeps him along, and then when the CEO retires he puts in the guy right below him who is a bit dumber then him as CEO. To survive and make it in the corporate beuracracy you never want to hire people smarter then you, God forbid your boss sees your subordinates and fires you and gives him your job.. I've been in the corporate beuracy and I'm the same way becuase you CAN NOT make waves. If you do you get booted out. Nobody wants change, the structure is there and the companies are already generating tremendous amount of cash flow (100's of millions a quarter). To become CEO, just keep it chill, relaxed and don't make waves.

Btw, I've fired quite a few ENTJs. They want to disrupt the status quo so we fire them. Take that shit to a startup. And they scare most people. Esp the ones with a strong E. All in your face and it upsets people's regular chi energy. I remember actually telling someone "you wanna be a hero, you can't do that here. Go to a startup".

 

[ThatGirl]

True though.

 

[stormrider]

And FWIW, I take the advice that Carl Icahn gives them some poe-dunk arm chair researched/psychologist.

TBH, I'd say way more executives are hidden INTJ's then ENTJ's.

A True ENTJ is annoying as hell in the corporate world. Where us INTJ's that have developed our E's are much better. We can stay in the shadows and feel everything out, keep tabs on everyone despite faking an interest and just wait for the right timing. That goes with the whole getting to be everyones friend so when the time comes for votes we get them.

The dark side of the force some considerable to be unnatural

I wonder what Larry Ellison is. It's hard analyzing some people because a lot of us can hide who the real person is

 

[INTPness]

After my post last night, I found this transcript, where he spoke at Yale. Very interesting read. http://oyc.yale.edu/economics/finan...pts/transcript-15-guest-lecture-by-carl-icahn

I have to say, though, this stuff goes against what I had previously thought. The ENTJ's I've known have not been ones to "stir the pot" or upset the status quo. Yes, they are innovative and that requires thinking outside the box, but they also want structure and in most cases they seem to respect the structures that are already in place. They are also usually smart enough to realize that if they stir the pot too much, it won't be good for their career. What I'm saying is that ENTJ's seem very capable of playing by the rules - at least moreso than ENTP's and INTP's. The word iconoclast is practically synonomous with these 2 types (ENTP/INTP). If you tell us the way you want something done, we automatically go fishing for a different way of doing it. We don't like the status quo at all. Yes, ENTJ's can be a bit "in your face", but they are very capable of getting into an organization and rising to the top.

I know 3 ENTJ's, for instance, that do the following jobs: One is the president of a university. Another is a dean of a college. And another is an executive at UCLA. They might have ideas of how things could be made better, but they certainly aren't "upsetting the status quo" or drawing a bunch of attention to themselves. They've always been the competent ones from what I've seen - the ones who should be CEO's.

So, what types are these lazy, good-for-nothing CEO's that Icahn is talking about? I can't be convinced that they are sensors. S's are not leading Fortune 500 companies. So, if they aren't ENTJ's, they must be ENTP for the most part?

The competent CEO types that I've known have all been ENTJ and ENTP. One ENTP CEO was much like Icahn describes - he was never even at work - once he wasn't there for 3 months straight - next thing we knew, he was gone. In an instant. But, I have known ENTP's who did well in these types of positions. I certainly don't see ENTJ's as car salesmen. I see them as competent people who can work well within a system, so long as they have ethics and they tame their aggression a bit.

 

[stormrider]

People usually don't last as ENTJ's for very long. They change (thats' one reason why there are so few in the population). INTJ and ENTJ are two types of people that need a certain type of environment to retain those characteristics.

ENTJ's who doesn't make waves don't have strong E's imho. Cause if you have the strong E and you also have the NTJ you can see things very analytically (we are loosing X dollars here, lets' fix this, we can land this big contract let's do it), if the guy has a strong E he'll mention this to someone or try to get the ball rolling in this direction.. If his E is less developed he'll probably let it pass.

I dunno, I just don't think most executives are E types. If you look at most of the executives and watch them talk everything they say is very rehersed. I mean they've practiced those lines dozens of times in front of the mirroir, you can tell.

Eric Schmidt the CEO of google; he used to have massive fear of speaking in front of audiences. He took classes at community college back when he was at Sun to try to help him get over this fear. I was also the same, very afraid to talk in public but I forced myself to handle it.

Now regular people can never tell that I was afraid to speak in public/large crowds. The only type of people taht can tell are people that have gone through the same problems and can pickup the very discerte ways we hide things. Slight variations in tone, body language and facial movement.

 

[stormrider]

I dunno even know why I bothered chiming in on this. Anyways, we INTJ's kick ass. Just gotta work on developing our E side a bit. I'm actually honestly trying to mature out of being an INTJ. As I've gotten older I'm really starting to see the world isn't so black and white. Before I always thought it was, you do this this and that and you get this result but that just isn't the case.

Life is often not fair, luck plays a major role and there are so many factors out of your control.
You can make straight A's all through university but the guy who's dad is partner at some investment banking firm is gonna get the job over you no matter what.

For an *NTJ that's hard to swallow cause it doesn't make logical sense.

 

[Rex]

I
For an *NTJ that's hard to swallow cause it is not right and fair

Fixed*

What do you work with stormrider and how old are you. +++

Do you know your wingtype and so on.

You should or could make a introduction thread to yourself in the.. umm introductions area..