[INTJ] George Bush is an INTJ. I'm serious!

[Red Herring]

Brain tumor

 

[IZthe411]

I am certain that I am an NF, and I actually have firmly decided ENFP, because I've taken time to understand function theory correctly.

All that aside - there have been entire threads where we have attempted to explain the difference between Sensors and Intuitives to you, and you in particular were one of the people saying "HUH UH NO WAY THAT DOESN'T MEAN THEY ARE INTUITIVE."

It's a waste of time trying to explain it to you, as an individual, because no explanation pleases you. But I have also encountered the same attitude with other ISTJs and a couple of STPs on the forum.

It's a pointless conversation.

Can you tell me why you would think he's an Intuitive?

I understand well what is being described as intutive behavior; my questions were behind the constant implications that Sensors don't do those same things, which they do. But I got it now.

You're still the one who makes assertions that all ENFPs don't like soap operas, or don't like the smell of lemons, or you must be a sensor because you like sports. Thought you were playing here at first but you seriously feel this way, and you're off. You're asking people do they like to read mystery novels or paint by number series, to determine if their type. Way off.

And you still didn't answer my question to you why he isn't.

 

[Thalassa]

I understand well what is being described as intutive behavior; my questions were behind the constant implications that Sensors don't do those same things, which they do. But I got it now.

You're still the one who makes assertions that all ENFPs don't like soap operas, or don't like the smell of lemons, or you must be a sensor because you like sports. Thought you were playing here at first but you seriously feel this way, and you're off. You're asking people do they like to read mystery novels or paint by number series, to determine if their type. Way off.

And you still didn't answer my question to you why he isn't.

I'm pretty good at guessing people's types IRL, almost spot on when I think it to myself and they take the test afterward. Usually how I tell someone is a sensor is when I talk to the person and "something is missing." But I'm also very high on N.

It's a feeling I get. None of my answers are going to make you happy because I am so NF and you are so SJ.

 

[Elfboy]

seriously, if you haven't watched the clips, please do. all of you saying he's ESTP or ESTJ will be very surprised. his behavior is SP-ish sometimes, but I think that's because he's 8w7 or possibly 7w8 (it's not a cognitive thing, he just likes to be funny, make entrances and be crazy like 7s and 8s do)

 

[Savage Idealist]

Concerning the first video, how the hell did Bush go from an educated and excellent speaking that shows a strong level of intellect and knowledge, to a bumbling dumb-ass who needs note cards and and can't make convincing arguments? If anything, the recent Bush, and the Bush ten years ago appear to have completely different personalities. Although, I don't see why he would be INTJ exactly, as other types can be just as organized and careful in their speeches on politics (hell, most politicians need to maintain a strong sense of seriousness if they wish to get anywhere in the government). I'd be more inclined to say ISTJ for him, although I wouldn't rule out the possibility of INTJ, ESTP, or ESTJ as well.

 

[Thalassa]

Severe alcoholism.

 

[IZthe411]

I'm pretty good at guessing people's types IRL, almost spot on when I think it to myself and they take the test afterward. Usually how I tell someone is a sensor is when I talk to the person and "something is missing." But I'm also very high on N.

It's a feeling I get. None of my answers are going to make you happy because I am so NF and you are so SJ.

I'm not happy because this is all Fi talk- you. Which is why it's not worth it for me to continue. Your argument holds no water to anyone but you; still you're entitled to it.
What would satisfy me is something with a little more logic to it (maybe that's why I'm an S?), something other than your feelings, since my original statement is one of logic.

All you know about me is the letters I choose to put up there to actually to know that I'm 'So SJ'.

 

[Thalassa]

I'm not happy because this is all Fi talk- you. Which is why it's not worth it for me to continue. Your argument holds no water to anyone but you; still you're entitled to it.
What would satisfy me is something with a little more logic to it (maybe that's why I'm an S?), something other than your feelings, since my original statement is one of logic.

All you know about me is the letters I choose to put up there to actually to know that I'm 'So SJ'.

No, you're so SJ because of the way you are. Other SJs might be a bit more N, like my ex, or like JTG1984.

Anyway, I've got over 10,000 posts on this forum, many of which are filled with intelligent discussions of Ne, Ni, Se, Si, Fi, Fe, Te, and Ti. If the only posts you've noticed are when I'm not in the mood to argue, or being more feeler-ish, or flaky, that's not my problem.

George W is an ESTP and I made a point-by-point argument on Personality Cafe for it several months ago. I'll find the link for you want.

I just think it's so obvious that 'ol George is an ST type....so, so obvious...

 

[Elfboy]

No, you're so SJ because of the way you are. Other SJs might be a bit more N, like my ex, or like JTG1984.

George W is an ESTP and I made a point-by-point argument on Personality Cafe for it several months ago. I'll find the link for you want.

I just think it's so obvious that 'ol George is an ST type....so, so obvious...

I think he played ESTP during his presidency. his real personality before he went into official is more much more I,N and J-ish (although he's certainly not an F). personality aside though, the thought processes of how he went about forming his political opinions seem strikingly INTJ to me.

 

[ReflecTcelfeR]

ESTx. A doctor diagnosed him with dementia, which could be possible, but the video was trying to point out our mistake at picking him as a president (I couldn't vote by the way and I'm moderate) so I'm hestiant to believe that diagnosis. I don't know if he was necessarily putting on an act, that's somewhat demonizing too, without proof. As for his type. I could see dom. Se or Si. When he reminisces he seems to try recall details so either way I think leaning towards Se might be more accurate.

 

[Totenkindly]

No. Dick Cheney, Vladimir Putin, and possibly Hillary Clinton are INTJ politicians.
George W is ESTP though some say ESTJ.

Yeah -- P, not J.

The guy's pathetically P -- he's reactive to events, whereas Cheney is proactive.
He does his best NOT strategizing but just throwing himself into a situation and tactically working his way out of it.

I think he played ESTP during his presidency. his real personality before he went into official is more much more I,N and J-ish (although he's certainly not an F). personality aside though, the thought processes of how he went about forming his political opinions seem strikingly INTJ to me.

Well, you can think what you want, I suppose.

Maybe you'd do better to compile a list of verified INTJs and then compare GWB to them. You'll see the pattern isn't even close... even aside from the fact that Dubya's anything but an intellectual. (He's an SP doer.)

seriously, if you haven't watched the clips, please do. all of you saying he's ESTP or ESTJ will be very surprised. his behavior is SP-ish sometimes, but I think that's because he's 8w7 or possibly 7w8 (it's not a cognitive thing, he just likes to be funny, make entrances and be crazy like 7s and 8s do)

I watched the guy for, what, 10-12 years? And across various news outlets, not across a few online videos hand selected by someone who already decided he knew what type Bush was. I'll pass, thnx.

 

[sleuthiness]

seriously, if you haven't watched the clips, please do. all of you saying he's ESTP or ESTJ will be very surprised. his behavior is SP-ish sometimes, but I think that's because he's 8w7 or possibly 7w8 (it's not a cognitive thing, he just likes to be funny, make entrances and be crazy like 7s and 8s do)

All of us who've been saying estp have been discussing this for years.

e78's certainly a strong contender, but I'm not all that compelled to watch videos of him all afternoon.

Let us know when you come around to whatever you come around. And when I say "us", I'm referring to your "all of you" sentiment.

 

[Night]

This is the attitude that fuels most of the misconceptions out there- like there's no such thing as a dumb INTJ.

While certainly a frustrating misconception, I'd offer the implication (in this case - by association) that "George W. Bush is dumb" as a far stupider suggestion.

 

[strawberries]

i watched the second tape because it’s the oldest. the fact that he can string some sentences together makes him intj?! um, no. he's not a strategist and i do not get N from him at all.

it’s not even a political interview – it’s a personal interview. he does come across as calm, but i wouldn't say markedly confident. it’s an informal interview and he’s speaking on subjects he’s comfortable/familiar with. he’s asked questions like ‘how texan are you?’ it’s not a tough interview or a tough situation and he was not in a position of authority at the time = less pressure. he reflects on bush family dynamics and growing up in texas and talks about his family’s contribution to public life.

he’s very quick to respond to the interviewer in tape 2 – he doesn’t pause to contemplate his response before speaking. this suggests to me he was provided with the questions beforehand, which is not uncommon when it comes to cuddly interviews such as this one. it’s not hard to memorise a few natty personal anecdotes in preparation for such an interview. it’s much more difficult to riff on foreign policy and military strategy in front of a snarling international media pack.

puh-lease. estp. next.

 

[sciski]

I watched the first part of tape 1 and was struck by the contrast. The main contrast I picked up though, was that the -10 years GWB seemed focused, rehearsed, confident, hopeful and energetic. The 10-years-later GWB seemed broken and beaten down in comparison. It actually made me feel sad to see the difference. I'm not sure if it's a change in personality as much as a portrait of a man who's given up and just hoping to be left alone. Probably too many years listening to his advisers and trying to parrot the policy instead of speaking from his own viewpoint with confidence.

 

[figsfiggyfigs]

 

[Athenian200]

I watched the videos.

I think he's ISTJ. The reason he's not stumbling in the first video, is because he's talking about a subject he understands fully, and he isn't under a lot of stress. As president, he was out of his element, and tried to speak about things he didn't really understand well. The added stress of being president and having a national audience didn't help either. Basically, he was cut out to be a governor, but not a president.

 

[ThatGirl]

Hm...my first thought in reading the this thread title was....you can't be serious...lol.

Lets say...since this thread sucks ass otherwise, that this is a true statement (though I doubt it is)....What would cause a person to go from confident to stumbling?

Dementia? Are you kidding?

If you take someone who is confident in knowing the bigger picture, how things work and their role, then gestalt the shit out of them with reasonable but inconsistent logic and anti Fi opinion from every end, and with force, you can trip someone up.

From what I have seen of INTJs they do NOT operate well under forceful demand unless acting alone from their own thought.

They are I's so piling up on them like a football player under a fumble causes them to retreat. Until a better solution manifests itself. If the pressure does not decrease, they continue to retreat. Being pushed into a public spectacle only makes them retreat more. Their communication to be less confident. Since they have no idea what the fuck they are talking about.

The problem with this country, no one knows how to nurture intelligence. From its ground state.

The first video signifies someone who is confident in the words they are saying. The ten years later seem more 'rehearsed' even the video said so. The difference in speech is because he did not believe or adhere to the words he was speaking.

Now, an INTJ wouldn't really continue the charade unless status was a huge factor in their interaction.

In video two we see this.

George Bush unfortunately was a pawn.

 

[Totenkindly]

I watched the first part of tape 1 and was struck by the contrast. The main contrast I picked up though, was that the -10 years GWB seemed focused, rehearsed, confident, hopeful and energetic. The 10-years-later GWB seemed broken and beaten down in comparison. It actually made me feel sad to see the difference. I'm not sure if it's a change in personality as much as a portrait of a man who's given up and just hoping to be left alone. Probably too many years listening to his advisers and trying to parrot the policy instead of speaking from his own viewpoint with confidence.

I think he just got in over his head and, on some level, really did want to do some good.
I mean, the guy had been sort of a loser and an alcoholic and kind of a disgrace to his family.
Then he got sober and decided to go into politics and I think felt like he was 'proving himself' to be a decent guy. his daddy was finally proud of him. He was actually successful on lower levels, and my understanding of his role as Texas gov, he actually brought both parties together and managed to reduce partisanship.

However, he wasn't prepared for the realities of being president and the hard politics of the national level, pure and simple. he kind of sold his soul just to get elected (with all those hard swings to the right, while really being more moderate). And no, he wasn't a great thinker; he's more the guy who deals with the problem du jour, but the issues he was having to deal with demanded far more strategic approach, rather than waiting for things to blow up in one's face.

 

[ScorpioINTP]

I think he just got in over his head and, on some level, really did want to do some good.
I mean, the guy had been sort of a loser and an alcoholic and kind of a disgrace to his family.
Then he got sober and decided to go into politics and I think felt like he was 'proving himself' to be a decent guy. his daddy was finally proud of him. He was actually successful on lower levels, and my understanding of his role as Texas gov, he actually brought both parties together and managed to reduce partisanship.

However, he wasn't prepared for the realities of being president and the hard politics of the national level, pure and simple. he kind of sold his soul just to get elected (with all those hard swings to the right, while really being more moderate). And no, he wasn't a great thinker; he's more the guy who deals with the problem du jour, but the issues he was having to deal with demanded far more strategic approach, rather than waiting for things to blow up in one's face.

I pretty much agree. He was never a successful business man either, but that's another story. I couldn't sleep the other night and saw him on CSPAN talking to SMU students and he is just not a very deep thinker. He had a hard time answering students questions directly (nothing too complicated or deep). He seemed much more relaxed and frank than his presidency days, but he struggles to answer even basic questions with any cohesiveness and blabbers on without truly answering the question, turning it into something else. He did say he hates politics and wants nothing to do with it anymore (which, if I remember correctly, parallels the movie W's portrayal) and wants to do other good and productive things. He touched on his religious beliefs too. He did also say something to the effect that he never had any aspirations to be president and just kinda fell into it and never really knew what he wanted to do. I think the powers that be chose him, because of his name only, and threw Cheney, Rumsfeld and the other Bush Sr. cronies into the fold, hoping to run things behind the scenes.

I think a lot of people forget how bad he was the 9mos leading up to 911 (you can argue he was worse after). It was said he slept in late, took naps in the middle of the day, wasn't really engaged in cabinet meetings and then his notorious 5 week vacation that first summer leading up to the attack. Then after the fact he goes on to talk about his #1 priority being to protect the people (a normal response I'd say). In the interview, he says that his #1 accomplishment was not having another attack.

Anyway, I don't think he is some hidden genius. I think he is who he is. People who are critical of him, do say he is personable and likable when they meet him. I can buy that, but he never should have been elected (nor would he have been without his family being a political Dynasty). Even he admits that. He doesn't know what he would have done had be been born into another family type though.