[INTJ] On a causal relationship...I need a advice….

[Lori]

** Casual relationship I need advice**
So the story goes…I met this man (an INTP I believe) who said he was only interested in having a “causal relationship”. I was attracted to him and was not interested in a serious relationship, so I decided to give it a whirl.

Thus far we have been interacting for 6 months. From the beginning he told me he was not interested in anything serious, but brought up he wants to get married someday. He texts almost every day, though we have only met in person 3 times. He travels nearly half of the time for work and is a single father, so he says his time is limited. He continually tells me how wonderful he thinks I am, that he is thinking about me, how much he misses me, and how he wishes I were there with him. He went so far to invite on business trip with him to Europe. He even brought up us getting married in a joking manner and when I question him he said “it is nice to think about”.

As an INTJ I have a difficult time reading relationships(go figure). I have come to really like him. Because of the manner of his texts it seemed like he was thinking beyond something casual.

So what brings me to writing this post, is a couple days ago he was traveling and he told me how much he wished I was there with him. Then a few hours later I received a very explicit and intimate text from him begging someone to meet up with him, which was actually intended for someone else (ops). I didn’t know how to respond, so I asked him what he meant (because we had no plans to meet) and his response was “Ok, I get it. And I have not heard from him since.

I understand we are involved in a causal relationship, but his texts eluded to otherwise. I feel angry, hurt, and led on. (yes INTJ’s have feelings..well every once in awhile anyway). What do you think? Am I overreacting or do I have something to be angry about? What should I do? Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[Greta]

Ah... Another flip-floppy, weasely INTP dude is *potentially* poised to leave destruction in his wake.
Tread carefully. Yours is a common complaint. They are not infrequently poison, as the many threads in the NT and Relationships sections by hapless chicks dating INTx dudes will show. Take a look around.

There should be a PSA or something.

 

[Red Herring]

Are you sure the message was directed at somebody else? Could it have been a continuation of the conversation on how he misses you? Does it mention another name or are you just assuming he couldn't have meant you because you had agreed you wouldn't meet up? Is it possible he texted you to show he missed you and was put off by your reaction or just plain busy?

If you are sure the message was intended for somebody else, screw him! Sooner or later you probably will hear from him and then you can still confront him and discuss the terms of your "casual" deal...if you are still interested. But if he sweet talks this much and still has somebody else at the side, I would not take him seriously and move on.

 

[ScorpioINTP]

Ah... Another flip-floppy, weasely INTP dude is *potentially* poised to leave destruction in his wake.
Tread carefully. Yours is a common complaint. They are not infrequently poison, as the many threads in the NT and Relationships sections by hapless chicks dating INTx dudes will show. Take a look around.

There should be a PSA or something.

Generalize much?

Only seen him 3x in 6 mos? Don't you want something more? You might as well confront him with what happened, rather than play a game. Direct honesty is always best IMO, despite being difficult to do sometimes.

 

[Red Herring]

Ooops, I had overlooked the bit about only meeting 3 times. In that case there is a lot to catch up on either way. How can he talk about a future if you have hardly seen each other? That does seem to support the sweet talker theory (that or he is very naive). There definitely are some issues beyond fidelity.

 

[Greta]

Generalize much?

Yes, and it's not a dirty word.

Only seen him 3x in 6 mos? Don't you want something more? You might as well confront him with what happened, rather than play a game. Direct honesty is always best IMO, despite being difficult to do sometimes.

I was attracted to him and was not interested in a serious relationship, so I decided to give it a whirl.

Game: saying casual only. acting something else. In both corners.

 

[ScorpioINTP]

Game: saying casual only. acting something else. In both corners.

I wasn't referring to the overall "game", but you make a valid point. I mean she should find out if he was indeed texting someone else or if it was a misunderstanding, rather than play long or jump to conclusions (but having just re-read that I guess that was indeed the case). I am just a little perplexed why she replied "what do you mean?" if she knew it was meant for someone else. His reply is even odder. I don't quite understand the whole thing to be honest. Too much missing information and don't know what was said.

It is natural to mix up feelings with sex to some extent. I've had casual relationships turn into something serious too. Is this a long distance thing or is he just that busy? If he stays in different locations, maybe he has someone in each place.

If you have only seen him 3 times, maybe he has had you mixed up with someone else all along jks

 

[ExAstrisSpes]

I suspect that INTPs tend to not be very in touch with their feelings, or what they are doing in/with their relationships in general.

I've been involved with an INTP for a while (many, many threads are out there dealing with my attempts to understand his behavior). I've noticed he "thinks" or considers the relationship much more casually than I do, but then will re-evaluate and say that the relationship is much closer to what I think it is later. I base where the relationship is on his behavior. He literally went from "I thought we were dating very casually, I don't see us being together long-term" to "We are in a serious relationship" in six weeks.

He certainly acts more serious that he says he is, which is the confusing thing for me. "Are we, or aren't we dude?" One of his friends recently told me that my INTP referred to me (to his good friend and work buddies) as his "girlfriend" and this friend had to rub it in to him a bit, since we've been dating for a while now. "Oh, she's your *girlfriend* now, huh?" *nudge nudge wink wink*

That said, I think this guy is not worth your time. Long-distance relationships are really not worth it, especially if it's going to be "casual".

 

[AgentF]

**need advice
So the story goes…I met this man (an INTP I believe) who said he was only interested in having a “causal relationship”. I was attracted to him and was not interested in a serious relationship, so I decided to give it a whirl.

Thus far we have been interacting for 6 months. From the beginning he told me he was not interested in anything serious, but brought up he wants to get married someday. He texts almost every day, though we have only met in person 3 times. He travels nearly half of the time for work and is a single father, so he says his time is limited. He continually tells me how wonderful he thinks I am, that he is thinking about me, how much he misses me, and how he wishes I were there with him. He went so far to invite on business trip with him to Europe. He even brought up us getting married in a joking manner and when I question him he said “it is nice to think about”.

As an INTJ I have a difficult time reading relationships(go figure). I have come to really like him. Because of the manner of his texts it seemed like he was thinking beyond something casual.

So what brings me to writing this post, is a couple days ago he was traveling and he told me how much he wished I was there with him. Then a few hours later I received a very explicit and intimate text from him begging someone to meet up with him, which was actually intended for someone else (ops). I didn’t know how to respond, so I asked him what he meant (because we had no plans to meet) and his response was “Ok, I get it. And I have not heard from him since.

I understand we are involved in a causal relationship, but his texts eluded to otherwise. I feel angry, hurt, and led on. (yes INTJ’s have feelings..well every once in awhile anyway). What do you think? Am I overreacting or do I have something to be angry about? What should I do? Any advice would be appreciated.

i assume by causal you mean casual? if so:

are you actually interested in a casual relationship? you say you "understand we are involved in [that kind of] relationship". that is a passive stance. what do you actually want?

the best advice i can offer you is this: HOPE IS NOT A RELATIONSHIP.

also:

feel free to peruse my journey with a wonderful! and emotionally unavailable INTx here. it is an exciting blueprint for delusional behavior and how to rationalize all kinds of unacceptable acts on the part of the man for whom you have feelings.

w/r/t dating men with children:
as a woman who has dated a few men (all, coincidentally, INTs) with children from previous marriages, i can tell you that you are in for a ride, depending on how recently he is divorced, how unhealthy the dynamic with his ex is, how chaotic his life may still be, etc. the important thing to know is that you are not in a relationship with a man with children until you start having serious discussions about the role he would like you to play in his children's lives. not just wishful thinking and pillow-talk. i'm talking about Q&A on your parenting skills, whether you want more children, what your views are on various parenting-related topics. once you've had those discussions you jointly plan how to phase you into their lives. until then, you are in the girlfriend zone. and sometimes you will *stay* in the girlfriend zone because he really may only want a girlfriend for now. or, you may not make the mommy cut. and guess what? there is virtually nothing you're going to be able to do to change that.

and the text he mistakenly sent you? you have feelings for a man who is layin' down pipe with at least one other woman?? get some popcorn and read my posts. and enjoy second-hand heartbreak, rather than live it.

 

[Lori]

Thanks everyone for your imput. Your responses have given me alot of clarity and help me get back into a more logical and thinking mode (feeling and emotional land is a bit uncomfortable).

If you are sure the message was intended for somebody else, screw him! Sooner or later you probably will hear from him and then you can still confront him and discuss the terms of your "casual" deal...if you are still interested. But if he sweet talks this much and still has somebody else at the side, I would not take him seriously and move on.

Yes, definitely this text was directed at someone else. And yes, I have heard from him today (3 days later), as if nothing has changed. Says he was "thinking of me", imagine that!! Wtf! I will see him when he is back home. Just texting about how I feel will not make him be held accountable enough. In person is a better way for him to see how I feel and to see his reactions to what I say and get his perspective. However, I don't thin it will hold much validity at this point. :steam:

i assume by causal you mean casual? if so:

Are you actually interested in a casual relationship? you say you "understand we are involved in [that kind of] relationship". that is a passive stance. what do you actually want?

the best advice i can offer you is this: HOPE IS NOT A RELATIONSHIP.

also:

feel free to peruse my journey with a wonderful! and emotionally unavailable INTx here. it is an exciting blueprint for delusional behavior and how to rationalize all kinds of unacceptable acts on the part of the man for whom you have feelings.

and the text he mistakenly sent you? you have feelings for a man who is layin' down pipe with at least one other woman?? get some popcorn and read my posts. and enjoy second-hand heartbreak, rather than live it.

Yes, long night

Yes, very true. I suppose I did get a bit whimsical and get caught up in the "what if" part of it all because of course I do not know him well, but there were certain things about him I really enjoyed (I am really attracted to INTP's..ugh). I usually find them to be more honest and less caculating.

Thanks for referring me to your threads. Your experiences are not in vain, I will not fall further victim to his behavior .

 

[Lori]

I suspect that INTPs tend to not be very in touch with their feelings, or what they are doing in/with their relationships in general.

I've been involved with an INTP for a while (many, many threads are out there dealing with my attempts to understand his behavior). I've noticed he "thinks" or considers the relationship much more casually than I do, but then will re-evaluate and say that the relationship is much closer to what I think it is later. I base where the relationship is on his behavior. He literally went from "I thought we were dating very casually, I don't see us being together long-term" to "We are in a serious relationship" in six weeks.

He certainly acts more serious that he says he is, which is the confusing thing for me. "Are we, or aren't we dude?"

Thanks for the threads. His behavior perplexes me. For example: We had only been talking for about a week and had not met in person yet, and he tells me "he enjoys having me in his life". Or the few time he has spoken on the phone, he doesn't got through the motions of exchanging pleasentaries and just get to the point. Yet in text or in person he is full of them.

It is natural to mix up feelings with sex to some extent. I've had casual relationships turn into something serious too. Is this a long distance thing or is he just that busy? If he stays in different locations, maybe he has someone in each place.

If you have only seen him 3 times, maybe he has had you mixed up with someone else all along jks

I was just trying to give an quick overview of our interactions. But, basically he is carrying on like nothing is wrong or changed ( as I mentioned above). Yet sending me the same type of texts as before. Just sent me another just now. Saying "he hopes he dreams of me". !

Yes women in different locations of the world. He has traveled to six different contries since I known him. That makes me feel so warm and fuzzy!

Oh no, he knows who I am!

 

[figsfiggyfigs]

Ah... Another flip-floppy, weasely INTP dude is *potentially* poised to leave destruction in his wake.
Tread carefully. Yours is a common complaint. They are not infrequently poison, as the many threads in the NT and Relationships sections by hapless chicks dating INTx dudes will show. Take a look around.

There should be a PSA or something.

Amen.

 

[Lori]

What I do not understand most is, is why when I agreed to casual that he felt the need to sweet talk me. Because A) I agreed to it and B) I was not showing signs of disinterest in the arrangement. So why does he attempt to create the illusion that there is more than to it than there acutally is? Or is he being wishy washy and not knowing what he wants and is somewhat sincere in his words (though actions are not backing it up)?

 

[swordpath]

Ask him.

It's been 6 months? I think it's high time you received clarity on what the deal is with whatever y'all are doing.

 

[AgentF]

(I am really attracted to INTP's..ugh). I usually find them to be more honest and less caculating.

calculating...fascinating word. i wish some INTPs would chime in on whether they consider themselves to be calculating, at least from an emotional perspective. my interactions with them are usually layered, complex, and almost immediately intimate. they're like crack to me. the more mature they are, the better our interactions. the converse is also true.

but you want emotional maturity and stability from an intimate relationship, regardless of personality type. i'm glad to hear that you are thinking this through and pondering our experiences. through the collective ass-kickings administered by the members of this forum, i've put an unhealthy dynamic with an emo. unavailable INTx behind me. i closely examined my role and discovered how complicit i was in it all. eventually found the humor in it. and when i disappeared for several days (felt like an eternity), i quickly discovered that i felt happier without him than with him.

just wonderful. i hope you find the same. reality (even if it means solitude) is a beautiful thing when you let it happen...

 

[Aibell]

I'm going to answer this with how I behave in any kind of relationship where sex/romance is involved. It might be slightly off as I am female, and it might not relate to type at all.

When I meet someone with potential for a relationship, they're my new project. I spend a lot of time analyzing the person and the interaction between us. I might live through a score of possible outcomes in my head long before theres anything really happening, and they all tend to be way better than RL. I see the bad ones too, but I tend to save them for later in an effort to pretend I'm an optimist.

I often to start probing, maybe sending some cute text and try to foresee the result and how I will react to the reply I get. I will probably have no clue whatsoever how I feel, and this is how I find out. Simplified, if I react with panic I know I need more time and I will withdraw. If I get butterflies the probing continues. I know i won't be sure of how I feel in many, many months so even if I panic I will continue interacting with the person because I know things might change. Most of the time it doesn't. Most of the time, my iNtuiton knows what its doing; panic? Wrong person.

On the other hand I mimic a lot. So the other person is capable of defining the relationship for me, way before I have gotten a handle on how I feel and what I want. I will act according to the definition and the given parameters, not based on the way I feel at all. This happened more often and took me longer to realize when I was younger, as I now know I do this and goes to great lenghts to avoid it.

The probing part might come off as calculating, I know I have been mistaken for manipulating people and often I am given credit for feelings I don't have because I seem to have them in the way I interact and respond. Usually I'm just exploring.
I'm 31 years old and only lately I've truely come to realize that most people aren't as detachted as I am. I don't mean to hurt people, I just sometimes forget to take other peoples feeling into consideration. For shame, mine is more interesting to analyze.

On a direct responce to the OP, no matter how unfeeling I might be or not, I have the decency not to have more than one project at a time. (And I might have an E phase going here)

 

[Totenkindly]

calculating...fascinating word. i wish some INTPs would chime in on whether they consider themselves to be calculating, at least from an emotional perspective.

What do you consider calculating?

INTPs seem to either be clueless about the emotional currents and where they lead, or they've got a big-picture sense of the cause/effect in the emotional/behavioral chain, and they respond appropriately with an awareness of what has to be done to reach a palatable result. If the latter is considered calculating, then I guess it is... but it's not manipulative, typically.

(aside from time-worn strategies by both types, such as a woman offering sex to win her husband over for something she wants, or a man saying "yes dear" to avoid a fight he knows he can't achieve what he wants.)

In the most normal cases, though, INTP just says things that are perceived as true, and lets the other person deal with it. It's all kind of straightforward.

What I do not understand most is, is why when I agreed to casual that he felt the need to sweet talk me. Because A) I agreed to it and B) I was not showing signs of disinterest in the arrangement. So why does he attempt to create the illusion that there is more than to it than there acutally is? Or is he being wishy washy and not knowing what he wants and is somewhat sincere in his words (though actions are not backing it up)?

It depends on the guy.

The relationship you describe, from a realistic POV, is casual.

The emotional cues he is giving you are far from casual.

I don't like that his mis-text to you was responded to in such a kneejerk fashion; if you stay involved with him, better get used to him flipping out if he makes a mistake again and/or misreads you. His showing back up without mention of it either shows emotional disregard or an inability to address issues in the relationship and/or maybe even apologize for his own mistakes.

Honestly, you've seen the guy 3x in six months. What does that say? He can say all the nice emotional stuff he wants, but even if he's being honest, it's clear he's associated his feelings with actions -- he "feels like he loves you and wants you there" and for some reason he seems to think that's the same as actually doing it. That's kinda bad new, that pattern will persist in any relationship you pursue with him until he reaches a point where he can acknowledge that DOING and not THINKING about doing (or feeling) is the litmus test for a successful relationship.

I had an ENTJ guy chasing me a few weeks ago, for an entire week, to the point where I finally agreed to see him. He had continued to sweet-talk me but in ways I found to be sincere, with all the resources at my disposal, so... I thought, why not? There was something attractive about his persistence, passion, and depth.

We got together, had a wonderful time talking for three hours, seemed to end the date well... and now he hasn't contacted me for 8-9 days after being the one to chase me intently and daily for about as many.

Don't ask me. Pretty amazing though what a smokescreen people can put up when they try, and how confusing it can be to deal with. People say one thing but do another, and it's best to stay away from those whose actions don't match up with their words.

 

[ExAstrisSpes]

Thanks for the threads. His behavior perplexes me. For example: We had only been talking for about a week and had not met in person yet, and he tells me "he enjoys having me in his life". Or the few time he has spoken on the phone, he doesn't got through the motions of exchanging pleasentaries and just get to the point. Yet in text or in person he is full of them.

The few known INTPs I've dated have all be somewhat crappy on the phone. One INTP went so far as to never call me, or when he did, would be so brief and empty of feeling I would feel somewhat disappointed that he called me at all. The INTP I'm dating now is a bit better, and can actually hold a conversation on the phone. He rarely calls me just to talk, although he has said that I can call him. The few times that I have called him have also been emotionally unrewarding for me, so I've resigned to just live with few phone calls. I see the fellow often enough as it is.

 

[Qre:us]

**need advice
So the story goes…I met this man (an INTP I believe) who said he was only interested in having a “causal relationship”. I was attracted to him and was not interested in a serious relationship, so I decided to give it a whirl.

Thus far we have been interacting for 6 months. From the beginning he told me he was not interested in anything serious, but brought up he wants to get married someday. He texts almost every day, though we have only met in person 3 times. He travels nearly half of the time for work and is a single father, so he says his time is limited. He continually tells me how wonderful he thinks I am, that he is thinking about me, how much he misses me, and how he wishes I were there with him. He went so far to invite on business trip with him to Europe. He even brought up us getting married in a joking manner and when I question him he said “it is nice to think about”.

As an INTJ I have a difficult time reading relationships(go figure). I have come to really like him. Because of the manner of his texts it seemed like he was thinking beyond something casual.

So what brings me to writing this post, is a couple days ago he was traveling and he told me how much he wished I was there with him. Then a few hours later I received a very explicit and intimate text from him begging someone to meet up with him, which was actually intended for someone else (ops). I didn’t know how to respond, so I asked him what he meant (because we had no plans to meet) and his response was “Ok, I get it. And I have not heard from him since.

I understand we are involved in a causal relationship, but his texts eluded to otherwise. I feel angry, hurt, and led on. (yes INTJ’s have feelings..well every once in awhile anyway). What do you think? Am I overreacting or do I have something to be angry about? What should I do? Any advice would be appreciated.

He got embarrassed/ashamed at being "caught" making arragements with another person.

Now, if it was truly casual, and explictly understood, there would be no shame/needing to hide, if he was found out making arragements with another person. He could face you directly and openly, but obviously he didn't/couldn't.

Meaning, although, in words, he/you claimed that it was casual [I'm guessing it means you both can see other people], he didn't believe that he truly adhered to that in his behaviours or words with you. Thus, he feels like he got caught with his hand in the cookie jar. I.e., he likely understood why you would react the way you did, seeing the mistaken message - as he AND you both know, you guys claimed it to be casual, but somewhere along the way, it mimicked something other than.

Talking the talk, and walking the walk........discrepancy between, makes for uncomfortable situations, that now INTP wants to avoid/play "ostrich - head in the sand".

PS - quite apropos, calling the thread, causal relationship rather than casual relationship - Freudian slip?

 

[Tallulah]

The few known INTPs I've dated have all be somewhat crappy on the phone. One INTP went so far as to never call me, or when he did, would be so brief and empty of feeling I would feel somewhat disappointed that he called me at all. The INTP I'm dating now is a bit better, and can actually hold a conversation on the phone. He rarely calls me just to talk, although he has said that I can call him. The few times that I have called him have also been emotionally unrewarding for me, so I've resigned to just live with few phone calls. I see the fellow often enough as it is.

I've had this experience. Having been on the receiving end of it, I'm surprised anyone ever wants to date us INTPs.