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  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    It sounds like your real issue is with ESxx types, then. They tend to drive around even fancier cars than any INxx type, because they regard the car as a status symbol. The INTJs on here seem to be driving their cars because they like some aspect of their engineering, or because they feel like it suits their personality, or something like that.

    I have to say, though, I would think that an Fi user would be the first to say that people have a right to do and have things that align with who they are and what they feel, regardless of what others think of them. Instead, you're bringing down the hammer and complaining about their choices being too "feminine," or "gaudy," which is actually a rather shallow judgment to make.

    You don't know why they want that car, or seem to care how the car makes them feel. You're just passing judgment because of what YOU think it represents, and how you perceive it, and you think that they should respect that over their own feelings and reasons.

    Ironically, I would say that you're condemning shallowness and vanity in a way that makes you look more shallow than the people you're condemning. Your standards are just reversed... you think more highly of people who drive around beaten-up or understated cars, and think poorly of people who drive around ostentatious ones. You're still using the same "shallow" standard as the person who admires ostentatious cars, you're just turning it upside down.
    +1

  2. #92
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SillySapienne View Post
    After looking and briefly perusing this thread.

    I DO NOT LIKE ANYTHING THAT OVERTLY DISPLAYS ONE'S "SUPERIOR" STATUS

    I HATE PEOPLE WHO OSTENTATIOUSLY WEAR/DRIVE THEIR MONEY AROUND, IT'S DISGUSTING, AND CLASSLESS,

    AND IT IS SOOOOOOOOOOOOO UNINSPIRED, THE SAME "FANCY" LABELS, THE SAME SYMBOLS OF WEALTH

    I am thoroughly judgmental regarding this, I don't like it, it's pathetic and sad.

    And, growing up in the environment I had, and living where I do, I see it all the time, and I HATE IT.

    /End rant
    I thought more about the question in the OP. It is a good question. Why waste money on an expensive car?

    As a child, I used to go through books reading about vintage automobiles – the Jaguar XKE, Mustang, Dino Ferrari, Ford GT, Rolls Royce Silver Cloud, Corvette, Aston Martin, etc. I had toy models of some of these cars. I suspect many children are interested in such things. One day these children grow up and the “toy” they wanted as a child is now within reach. So maybe they get one of these cars. Some buy a car that they dreamed about or something a bit lesser but in the same vein. Some have a second “fun car” – a vintage Mustang, Miata, or other. Some become collectors. Some people just like talking about buying one but never do.

    So why does someone want to do this? I’ll give my opinion. Maybe they appreciate a thing of beauty. Maybe they like driving them - the responsiveness, acceleration, handling, or feel of the road. Maybe they like driving with the top down and the wind in their hair. There is a visceral appeal to these things. Call it inferior Se (or Se period) or whatever but there is no question that driving a Porsche is an enjoyable thing. If you drive a Honda and then drive a Porsche, It’s not really hard to understand why somebody would want the Porsche.

    I personally do not buy a car very often. I get attached to my car. It becomes familiar. I rely on it to behave as I expect. In a strange way, it is a source of stability – like living in a place for a number of years – you get comfortable with it. The car I have now – I expect to put 125K - 150K miles on it. I spend a lot of time driving. If I’m going to do that, it might as well be in a car that I enjoy being in and that looks good. That’s what I figure anyway.

    Do I feel like “hot shit” when I’m driving it? Sometimes, maybe I do – just a little. Sometimes, I’m a tad embarrassed. Sometimes I worry about what other people will think. There are probably as many people who will look down their nose at you as those who look up. My choice is to some degree a polarizing one which by its nature, is guaranteed to negatively impact some people’s views of me. But who cares really because I enjoy driving the car. So I’ve decided that at the end of the day, I worked for it, paid for it, and am not going to concern myself about what other people think about it. Believe it or not, these are things that I’ve given some fair amount of thought to but haven’t had a chance to jot down till now

    For me, it's not so much about a fancy label. In fact, I prefer to get something that others do not have. I prefer something that is not popular. It's the reason I don't like SUVs. I would feel like a sheep buying one.

    There are probably people who buy these things just for status though. Maybe they are the BMW owners.

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  3. #93
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    I have to say, though, I would think that an Fi user would be the first to say that people have a right to do and have things that align with who they are and what they feel, regardless of what others think of them. Instead, you're bringing down the hammer and complaining about their choices being too "feminine," or "gaudy," which is actually a rather shallow judgment to make.

    You don't know why they want that car, or seem to care how the car makes them feel. You're just passing judgment because of what YOU think it represents, and how you perceive it, and you think that they should respect that over their own feelings and reasons.

    Ironically, I would say that you're condemning shallowness and vanity in a way that makes you look more shallow than the people you're condemning. Your standards are just reversed... you think more highly of people who drive around beaten-up or understated cars, and think poorly of people who drive around ostentatious ones. You're still using the same "shallow" standard as the person who admires ostentatious cars, you're just turning it upside down.
    hmm, these are really great points, spot on... perhaps the root of the repulsive response we feel is something to do with a loss of authenticity-For me-and perhaps other enfps-especially when younger-being authentic is HUGE and feels compulsive. To the point i refused to wear makeup or fix my hair for a long time and I totally did the upside down judgment you are highlighting. Perhaps we are seeing others covering themselves in some way, hiding behind something and it sets off an Fi signal of inauthenticity which feels kinda yucky.....These are very preliminary ramblings though and it is interesting to think more upon.....

  4. #94
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    It sounds like your real issue is with ESxx types, then. They tend to drive around even fancier cars than any INxx type, because they regard the car as a status symbol. The INTJs on here seem to be driving their cars because they like some aspect of their engineering, or because they feel like it suits their personality, or something like that.

    I have to say, though, I would think that an Fi user would be the first to say that people have a right to do and have things that align with who they are and what they feel, regardless of what others think of them. Instead, you're bringing down the hammer and complaining about their choices being too "feminine," or "gaudy," which is actually a rather shallow judgment to make.

    You don't know why they want that car, or seem to care how the car makes them feel. You're just passing judgment because of what YOU think it represents, and how you perceive it, and you think that they should respect that over their own feelings and reasons.

    Ironically, I would say that you're condemning shallowness and vanity in a way that makes you look more shallow than the people you're condemning. Your standards are just reversed... you think more highly of people who drive around beaten-up or understated cars, and think poorly of people who drive around ostentatious ones. You're still using the same "shallow" standard as the person who admires ostentatious cars, you're just turning it upside down.
    Great post.

    I know that this is a problem of mine, so much so that my sister confronted me about it when I told her I would never date a guy who drove a luxury car.

    I think ultimately a person is a person, and good people can like and own fancy, ostentatious things, and lousy people can own crappy things.

    I just don't like the idea of people *using* their money as a means to undeniably delineate that they are different, and by different I mean "above" other human beings.

    I am sensitive to this issue due to the environment I was raised in, I've known plenty of ridiculously wealthy people who've managed to keep their feet on the ground, in fact, these were the only ones I've ever respected.

    Extreme wealth, often times, facilitates a superiority complex in people, as if just because they have a lot of money they are divinely better.

    Wealth is just not a metric that I use to judge a person's character or worth, and I cannot stand those who foolishly do use it as a means to judge someone as being better or worse.
    `
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  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    I totally endorse every single word you are saying-I feel almost exactly the same way about almost everything.... But do to my esfp sister, I learned to drive in a sports car, albeit an old one, and it is SOOOOO fun. I love driving a stick and going really fast and then feeling kinda pressed into my seat as I zoom around corners. But, it was an ugly rusty sports car, so perhaps I dont have to turn in my Fi idealistic card just yet. Hmmm..
    -1

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    I totally endorse every single word you are saying-I feel almost exactly the same way about almost everything.... But do to my esfp sister, I learned to drive in a sports car, albeit an old one, and it is SOOOOO fun. I love driving a stick and going really fast and then feeling kinda pressed into my seat as I zoom around corners. But, it was an ugly rusty sports car, so perhaps I dont have to turn in my Fi idealistic card just yet. Hmmm..
    I also enjoy the sensation of driving/riding as sport.

    I love 4-wheeling, I love convertibles, I love motorcycles, I love riding horses, I love feeling great velocities, IT'S FUN!!!!!

    I don't like flying in cesnas (sp?) though, that was not fun. :eek:
    `
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  7. #97
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    I thought more about the question in the OP. It is a good question. Why waste money on an expensive car?

    As a child, I used to go through books reading about vintage automobiles – the Jaguar XKE, Mustang, Dino Ferrari, Ford GT, Rolls Royce Silver Cloud, Corvette, Aston Martin, etc. I had toy models of some of these cars. I suspect many children are interested in such things. One day these children grow up and the “toy” they wanted as a child is now within reach. So maybe they get one of these cars. Some buy a car that they dreamed about or something a bit lesser but in the same vein. Some have a second “fun car” – a vintage Mustang, Miata, or other. Some become collectors. Some people just like talking about buying one but never do.

    So why does someone want to do this? I’ll give my opinion. Maybe they appreciate a thing of beauty. Maybe they like driving them - the responsiveness, acceleration, handling, or feel of the road. Maybe they like driving with the top down and the wind in their hair. There is a visceral appeal to these things. Call it inferior Se (or Se period) or whatever but there is no question that driving a Porsche is an enjoyable thing. If you drive a Honda and then drive a Porsche, It’s not really hard to understand why somebody would want the Porsche.

    I personally do not buy a car very often. I get attached to my car. It becomes familiar. I rely on it to behave as I expect. In a strange way, it is a source of stability – like living in a place for a number of years – you get comfortable with it. The car I have now – I expect to put 125K - 150K miles on it. I spend a lot of time driving. If I’m going to do that, it might as well be in a car that I enjoy being in and that looks good. That’s what I figure anyway.

    Do I feel like “hot shit” when I’m driving it? Sometimes, maybe I do – just a little. Sometimes, I’m a tad embarrassed. Sometimes I worry about what other people will think. There are probably as many people who will look down their nose at you as those who look up. My choice is to some degree a polarizing one which by its nature, is guaranteed to negatively impact some people’s views of me. But who cares really because I enjoy driving the car. So I’ve decided that at the end of the day, I worked for it, paid for it, and am not going to concern myself about what other people think about it. Believe it or not, these are things that I’ve given some fair amount of thought to but haven’t had a chance to jot down till now

    For me, it's not so much about a fancy label. In fact, I prefer to get something that others do not have. I prefer something that is not popular. It's the reason I don't like SUVs. I would feel like a sheep buying one.

    There are probably people who buy these things just for status though. Maybe they are the BMW owners.
    God, I love you!

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    Very great post!

    You pulled me in, and now I am going to have to rethink about the veracity of my strong judgments.

    Or, maybe you're just an exception to the rule. :P
    `
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  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    hmm, these are really great points, spot on... perhaps the root of the repulsive response we feel is something to do with a loss of authenticity-For me-and perhaps other enfps-especially when younger-being authentic is HUGE and feels compulsive. To the point i refused to wear makeup or fix my hair for a long time and I totally did the upside down judgment you are highlighting. Perhaps we are seeing others covering themselves in some way, hiding behind something and it sets off an Fi signal of inauthenticity which feels kinda yucky.....These are very preliminary ramblings though and it is interesting to think more upon.....
    Believe it or not, I, and probably many of the people who have posted their favorite cars on here, have shared, to some extent, all the thoughts that you and Silly share.

    I actually still do to some extent, but I try to give people the benefit of the doubt, because I don't presume to know their reasons for owning the car that they do.

    Until someone has demonstrated that they own a car for inauthentic reasons, I prefer not to go around chopping them to pieces with my judgments.

    Perhaps people should consider the possibility that some people buy certain cars because they authentically desire and appreciate them.

    Believe it or not, authenticity is important to other people too; some people just have different tastes to be authentic to.

  9. #99
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    Lol, Z, how are you enjoying your ENFPs quirky Fi?
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  10. #100
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    To be fair and honest, this is one of my dream cars, too, and though I wouldn't call it a luxury car, I'm pretty sure it's not cheap.





    `
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    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

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