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Thread: NTJs...

  1. #81
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    In essence, I'm wondering if I can use Ne, to prod TeSe a bit
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  2. #82
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Maybe this also relates to gender divide. Who's willing to follow whom?

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    Maybe this also relates to gender divide. Who's willing to follow whom?
    that sounds like a security thing in regards to cross-gender security. How secure you are with the opposite gender.

  4. #84
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satine View Post
    In essence, I'm wondering if I can use Ne, to prod TeSe a bit
    You're going to do it anyway, so why not?


    The annoying aspect of emergent leadership arrives mostly only when the subjective values that drive it are poorly attuned to, or even unrelated to the person they aim to drive.



    ("attuned", "unrelated", pffft. Some other verb will express it better.)
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

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  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    You're going to do it anyway, so why not?


    The annoying aspect of emergent leadership arrives mostly only when the subjective values that drive it are poorly attuned to, or even unrelated to the person they aim to drive.



    ("attuned", "unrelated", pffft. Some other verb will express it better.)
    And whats gonna happen when they stop doing it to you?

  6. #86
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satine View Post
    Lol...are they like born with sticks up their asses?

    Hmm..you ask a good question. I just automatically feel like mucking about when things are too serious, unless I recognize that it's time to be serious and get shit done. And I cannot resist making someone who has a stick up their asses, laugh. It's like a personal mission, I *have* to try. And the best way to do that is to make them go completely while they're desperately trying to grasp wtf you're on about. And that's unfortunatley where Ne shines

    It also gets them out of their brooding and their being bored as they are distracted. And despite not wanting to, I have a flair for the dramatic and few people are as easily entertained by that and as able to accomodate that as NTJs are, I've found, much to my surprise, btw, considering how serious they can get. They like watching on the sidelines, like a good tv-show preferably with some popcorn
    There is one thing that I think some NTJs might be missing about what Satine is saying, here. When the ENFP and INTJ "get" each other, there's a whole bunch of unstated "getting" where the ENFPs tend to know whether cuddle time or play time or alone time is appropriate. I think she's asking more about what kind of play and teasing. Most of what she's talking about, Ne-style, is pretty much how I banter with my long-time INTP friend.

    Remember, ENFPs get their jollies by bringing an INTJ willingly out of his shell: that's their definition of "win." They don't count it as a win if the INTJ slinks off and sulks.

    As for the kind of interactions I enjoy, my ENFP and I tend to bounce ideas back and forth at each other. She'll Ne something, then I Ni the result, then she Ne's off of that statement, and we just leapfrog into a weird and wonderful combination of silliness and brainstorming.

  7. #87
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    You have a wonderful way of making things clear, Uumlau

    Would you enjoy it if she deliberately created a puzzle for you to resolve to reinforce this playtime with each other? And where she perhaps keeps you from solving it instantly by adding complications to challenge you? And, if so, when is the opportune time to do this? What kind of puzzles? For that matter, how do I get you to *act* (Se) upon those puzzles, implementing those solutions, instead of just NiTe?
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  8. #88
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satine View Post
    You have a wonderful way of making things clear, Uumlau

    Would you enjoy it if she deliberately created a puzzle for you to resolve to reinforce this playtime with each other? And where she perhaps keeps you from solving it instantly by adding complications to challenge you? And, if so, when is the opportune time to do this? What kind of puzzles? For that matter, how do I get you to *act* (Se) upon those puzzles, implementing those solutions, instead of just NiTe?
    Right now, there's no need to "reinforce" anything, so I'm not sure I would know.

    Note, however, that INTJs appear to enjoy listening to ENFP Ne-isms, and ENFPs appear to enjoy INTJ Ni-isms, especially when it's about playing. I think the only time she's become upset/discombobulated by my Ni is in more "serious" discussions where I rewrite all of her definitions on the fly, and she only notices because I'm not quite using the words right.

    I suspect that observation might help answer your question: as long as it is clearly playtime, Ne vs Ni is fun. If it's serious work time, and Ne seems to be tugging Ni from its assigned task, or Ni is totally destroying the underlying Si/Fi/Ti underpinnings of Ne, then it's more problematic (relatively speaking).

  9. #89
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    *ponders* you might have a point
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  10. #90
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    This is what Ni and Ne taking turns in a convo looks like, Ne in red and Ni in blue:



    But this is what the convo actually does-the cicrling version-as the convo actually slowly rotates away from the start point:



    When INTJs are tense and sort of anxious and unhappy it seems they dont need Ne. They need Fi stuff. Fi stuff is not cleanly defined material but when 3 it involves mommy holding you and letting you know that what you feel is okay and not getting mad at you for being miserable. Often it means you may need a nap and a hug and to cry just a bit and have me tell you that I'd feel the same way if I was in your place. When 44 it involves just holding you close and kissing your eyes and eyebrows and touching your face. It means being very aware of how you look and why you look and what you are doing and giving you space to not be perky and happy as when you dont feel happy you shouldnt have to act like you feel happy and remolding around you to make that all okay. Fi stuff involves wanting to soothe the other person when they are stressed by holding them. Fi stuff means paying attention to little quirks and things the other person feels weird about, and then respecting that space, even if it is totally illogical because to care for another is to care for them in totality...there are no flaws..just them as a unique beautiful person to be treasured.

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