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  1. #1
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Default Negotiating salary from the NT perspective

    I'm negotiating salary with a prospective employer. Having met him a few times now, I can see he is ENTJ. He offered x, I counter-offered with y (plus a small incentive). He then came back and said, "x is the absolute highest that HR will allow me to go. The organization has recently hired 2 individuals that will be doing the same work you will be doing and they have at least as much experience as you, if not more. That is HR's justification. But I will personally throw in the small incentive out of my own operating budget. So, I can offer you x plus the incentive, but not y."

    Questions: my gut tells me to say, "I can't do it for x. I need a little bit more than x. I can accept if you can't pay me y, but I need more than x (the gap between x and y is roughly a 17% difference)." I think he is playing hardball and putting me to a decision - he's saying, "last offer buddy."

    I want to call what I believe to be a bluff, but then there's the chance I won't get called back.

    a) For those of you who have negotiation skills, what are your thoughts here?
    b) Would ENTJ's be more prone to respect you more if you played hardball back and showed that you were willing to walk away on principle?
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

  2. #2
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    Do you have other options for employment?

  3. #3
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Good question. The answer to that is that I don't have anything lined up. I can find work, but of course it would take more time. I'd really like to have this job, to be honest. The work environment would clearly be the best I've ever worked in (facilities, office, the city it's in, the vacation time, etc.)
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

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    Well... I'd say its a gamble.

    And that sounds like a legit argument he has.

    It actually sounds like he's telling you he would be forced to hire someone else with similar qual's before HR would allow him to pay you more.

  5. #5
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    That is basically what he is saying. But, my intuition (lol, this is an MBTI website) tells me it's a bluff. I really do believe at this point that he cannot pay me y. I think I came in a bit high with my counter-offer. But, I do believe he can pay more than x and since gap is significant between what I'm asking for and what he's offering, there's got to be wiggle room. I personally believe that he's playing "the big bad HR department" against me.
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

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    If you're confident swing for the fences...

    Just know the stakes and don't ask for too much more.

  7. #7
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    It really depends on how the ENTJ normally operates and what restrictions are hard coded into their corporate culture. Without more information, it's difficult to say.

    Whenever I went into negotiations, I was fully prepared to walk away. This was from either side of the fence. You can't negotiate from a position of weakness and in your case, fear of losing this opportunity.

    Can you also expand on what this incentive is comprised of without giving detail? I do have a reason for asking since there might be flexibility in this area.

    Also, I'm a bit confused. Since when does an employee's salary not come out of a manager's operating budget?

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    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    It really depends on how the ENTJ normally operates and what restrictions are hard coded into their corporate culture. Without more information, it's difficult to say.

    Whenever I went into negotiations, I was fully prepared to walk away. This was from either side of the fence. You can't negotiate from a position of weakness and in your case, fear of losing this opportunity.

    Can you also expand on what this incentive is comprised of without giving detail? I do have a reason for asking since there might be flexibility in this area.

    Also, I'm a bit confused. Since when does an employee's salary not come out of a manager's operating budget?
    The incentive is moving expenses. In this situation, the organization received money to put towards expansion - they wanted to bring in people that would help the organization grow. So, a few of the departments were told, "You must hire someone into this new position with these funds." The ENTJ didn't necessarily want to or need to (I honestly don't know his thoughts, but another interviewer told me he didn't even think the position was necessary - he thought it was a waste - lol). So, he has to hire someone. Another thing in my favor here is that I was given inside info that I was the onlly person they considered and interviewed (that doesn't mean they couldn't interview more later) and that I have that as leverage and that I should take a hard line in the negotiation process because they will certainly try to low ball me. So far it's playing out exactly the way this guy said it would because what they are offering, is indeed very low for the position.
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

  9. #9
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    The incentive is moving expenses. In this situation, the organization received money to put towards expansion - they wanted to bring in people that would help the organization grow. So, a few of the departments were told, "You must hire someone into this new position with these funds." The ENTJ didn't necessarily want to or need to (I honestly don't know his thoughts, but another interviewer told me he didn't even think the position was necessary - he thought it was a waste - lol). So, he has to hire someone. Another thing in my favor here is that I was given inside info that I was the onlly person they considered and interviewed (that doesn't mean they couldn't interview more later) and that I have that as leverage and that I should take a hard line in the negotiation process because they will certainly try to low ball me. So, far it's playing out exactly that way because what they are offering, is indeed very low for the position.
    Is your work output quantifiable enough for some kind of real step-up incentive bonusing and/or defined salary increase?

  10. #10
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    Is your work output quantifiable enough for some kind of real step-up incentive bonusing and/or defined salary increase?
    It is definitely quantifiable. After 1 year, these new positions are either going to get cut or re-funded, based on results. He mentioned to me that, "we see this as a position that can become very rewarding down the line." I said, "Well, I understand that nobody in the organization has gotten any increase of any kind in the last 3 years (total freeze on raises of any kind) and that, most likely, it will be the same way in 2011, so I can't bank on getting an increase." His response: "You are correct about that."
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

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