[MBTI General] Help for an INTJ:ISTJ couple with problems

[Thalassa]

Agreed.

 

[rav3n]

+1

Shit. Did I just say that? Don't take away my NT badge.

 

[uumlau]

Shit. Did I just say that? Don't take away my NT badge.

 

[highlander]

He says “you are crazy and emotionally unstable and I am afraid to be alone with you, as if I make you mad you will so something like call a lawyer and take the baby away from me or take all of my money”.

Last week they met and had a very peaceful lunch at which they discussed very superficial topics that don’t have anything to do with the baby or their relationship.

She says she loves him and would like to be a couple. However she has never seen anybody so insistent that nothing is his fault and everything is her fault. His paranoia is also getting out of hand. The flip-flopping is also very notable in that she cant understand why if he doesn’t want a relationship, he keeps contacting her then acting like he wants a relationship. Her comment was “If I don’t like someone I don’t spend time torturing them…I just leave them alone. “

Questions:
1. Should she walk away and avoid this man due to physical danger? (This is a very slight concern of hers due to the unexpected paranoia)
2. Should she continue to try and interact with him before the birth of the baby or give him time alone to work through his frustration?
3. Is this relationship possible to save?
4. If the relationship is not possible to save, what is the best way to negotiate boundaries regarding the baby, given his paranoia and anger regarding lawyers and financial issues?

I don't know how any of these questions could be answered based on the information provided. All that was concretely described is one eruption of the inferior. My guess based on what you said is that he might be afraid that the same things will happen as happened with his last relationship.

If they're going to work out in the long term, it seems like they need to be able to navigate through things like this out on their own and develop a deeper level of trust in each other.

 

[Randomnity]

Um, wow. Regardless of who's "at fault", that's a remarkably unhealthy relationship, certainly on his end but it sounds like on her end as well.

And, heh. Unless she was religiously taking hormonal birth control (as a very bare minimum, and avoiding drug interactions), it wasn't "unexpected". "unwanted", perhaps.

After about six months of dating she became pregnant unexpectedly.

Questions:
1. Should she walk away and avoid this man due to physical danger? (This is a very slight concern of hers due to the unexpected paranoia)
2. Should she continue to try and interact with him before the birth of the baby or give him time alone to work through his frustration?
3. Is this relationship possible to save?
4. If the relationship is not possible to save, what is the best way to negotiate boundaries regarding the baby, given his paranoia and anger regarding lawyers and financial issues?

Well, there's not really much info here but:

1. The baby obviously complicates things, assuming she's too far along/unwilling since she's too far along to end it now. I would avoid moving in at this point, though.
2. In a cautious way.
3. Maybe, a therapist would know better. Relationship counselling asap!!
4. Therapist would also have guidelines for this.

I don't understand why women would ever risk pregnancy with someone after 6 months. I know it happens all the time, but I don't understand it.

edit: I'm really afraid for that poor kid's future....

 

[Kalach]

I'm impressed how many of you think INTJs are calm, rational understanders of all things. But uninspired by how many prefer to read paranoia into the frustration of being trapped between decisions.

If a global planner were faced with a serious situation which arose in part through his own actions and which had moral implications for himself and others, and implications for the whole character of his future life, and yet which did NOT include key outside elements he deemed vital to his continued involvement in the situation even though the situation very nearly stipulates his continued involvement, are you under the impression he'll suddenly stop being a global planner?

The INTJ is not aware that he requires other people to be both more consciously emotional than he would allow himself and more willing to govern themselves by determinate emotion than he would consciously allow himself. He seeks to extract that emotion from the ISTJ and at the same time seeks to ensure that the emotion is real and reliable. The ISTJ will be doing the exact same thing, but it doesn't show up as "paranoia" because she's being concrete about it and ridiculously wild guesses about some connection between the man's current behavior and his life with a previous wife make perfect "sense."

The partners can likely neither trust nor help each other. And the baby is too far along. Murder-suicide?

 

[Randomnity]

Oh, I am sorry if this seems distressing. Based upon Te standards both are actually very reliable with a long history of financial and emotional stability. They are both just in a period of Fi misbehaving. Fi can look very extreme, as the moment to moment displays are very erratic, but it tends to pass and be reined in via Te, especially in TJs. So it looks very, very messy externally. However once past the next few months, no matter what happens to the relationship, they will be good parents and be very financially responsible so I am not at all worried about the future of the kidlet.

I hope you're right. You actually know them, of course, whereas we can only go on a few facts. Still, I have to point out that financial responsibility is important but not even close to the only factor. "Wild Fi" outbursts and parental anger/fighting/paranoid accusations can be very damaging for kids, regardless of the parents' stability otherwise. (My parents were IxFP and xNTJ, and ohhh the fighting. Te can cause plenty of irrational arguments without any help from Fi).

If they're as emotionally stable as you say, surely the relationship isn't in jeopardy, if all these problems are going to evaporate for some reason in a few months?

 

[sculpting]

I hope you're right. You actually know them, of course, whereas we can only go on a few facts. Still, I have to point out that financial responsibility is important but not even close to the only factor. "Wild Fi" outbursts and parental anger/fighting/paranoid accusations can be very damaging for kids, regardless of the parents' stability otherwise. (My parents were IxFP and xNTJ, and ohhh the fighting. Te can cause plenty of irrational arguments without any help from Fi).

If they're as emotionally stable as you say, surely the relationship isn't in jeopardy, if all these problems are going to evaporate for some reason in a few months?

Oh the issues will be resolved as they will make a choice one way or the other regarding the relationship. They are Js. They wont sit around vacillating for very much long to be honest. Once that choice is made, they may each be emo and bitchy for awhile, they may dislike each other, but Te style efficiency will win out and they will snap back to their required responsibilities. From this perspective it might be better to end it now, so they complete that process more quickly, rather than drag the emo out by trying to stay together.

I cite financial stability as more of a global indicator. These folks both are highly educated, self supporting, and have a strong sense of responsibility. This points back to a strong work ethic, sense of responsibility for themselves and their actions upon others, and a lack of entitlement-all of which form the foundations of a stable Te style home?

The subject of parenting is a funny one though, as not only do your parents influence how you might express your own innate type, but your ability to cope with your parents normal behavior might be dependent upon your type.

Hmmm Te emo stability vs Fe emo stability. It is an interesting topic and the external indicators could be very different and tie in to some of the ongoing Fe threads.

 

[Kalach]

Who lets a pregnancy get to five months without addressing how fucked up the relationship that spawned the child is? TJs, probably. Or someone is lying about something somewhere. INTJ paranoia is real and usually points to something somewhere. ISTJ sensibility is also real and usually points to something somewhere.

They are a couple who are guaranteed to both put stress on each other and regret putting stress on each other, and to eventually seek solace elsewhere. That solace will broadly take the form of creating opportunities to create disorder in their by then quite ordered existence. That disorder will have been created on purpose because it brings to light their distress and allows it to be addressed.

So yeah, smooth everything over now. There'll be much better fireworks later.



It is a grave, grave, monumentally grave mistake to assume an ISTJ female will be content to be forced constantly to be "the woman". These two robots need to work out how to have their divorce now, while the child still has a chance to suffer only the distress of an absent parent.



*weeps a little*

Flesh has so many better uses than as clothing for people.

 

[ceecee]

Oh, I am sorry if this seems distressing. Based upon Te standards both are actually very reliable with a long history of financial and emotional stability. They are both just in a period of Fi misbehaving. Fi can look very extreme, as the moment to moment displays are very erratic, but it tends to pass and be reined in via Te, especially in TJs. So it looks very, very messy externally. However once past the next few months, no matter what happens to the relationship, they will be good parents and be very financially responsible so I am not at all worried about the future of the kidlet.

Misbehaving? Oh I'm sorry but when you decide to or allow a pregnancy you just forfeited the luxury of emo moments that are all about you. They get no free pass here.

Who lets a pregnancy get to five months without addressing how fucked up the relationship that spawned the child is? TJs, probably. Or someone is lying about something somewhere. INTJ paranoia is real and usually points to something somewhere. ISTJ sensibility is also real and usually points to something somewhere.

They are a couple who are guaranteed to both put stress on each other and regret putting stress on each other, and to eventually seek solace elsewhere. That solace will broadly take the form of creating opportunities to create disorder in their by then quite ordered existence. That disorder will have been created on purpose because it brings to light their distress and allows it to be addressed.

So yeah, smooth everything over now. There'll be much better fireworks later.



It is a grave, grave, monumentally grave mistake to assume an ISTJ female will be content to be forced constantly to be "the woman". These two robots need to work out how to have their divorce now, while the child still has a chance to suffer only the distress of an absent parent.



*weeps a little*

Flesh has so many better uses than as clothing for people.

 

[InvisibleJim]

This sounds like a bundle of laughs where both individuals have severe unresolved issues and don't know how to deal with them.

If both are IxTJs I would expect that neither will accept outside signals/intervention seeing it as infringement on their freedom and both of them would appear to want to force the other to capitulate.

The INTJ inside says: 'Advice A: consider choosing better friends'

 

[sculpting]

Thanks everyone, your advice was of great value and is much appreciated.

The INTJ inside says: 'Advice A: consider choosing better friends'

That is actually brilliantly insightful with no sarcasm intended. That borders on amazingly insightful. It is...stunning.