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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    The thing that comes to mind for me is that, IMO, INTJ's take a more proactive approach to trying to prove A, B, or C. They are forging forward and discovering new truths. They have theory A and so they set out to prove it. If they are able to prove it, then maybe it helps society or helps the situation they are in.

    With INTP's, there is truth and then there is everything else. It's more of a passive approach in that we see the truth as something that is out there to be explored. We're not trying to change the truth or forge into new territory necessarily - we just want to understand truth as it is.

    One reason that I think you see more INTJ's in Ph.D. programs than you do INTP's (I have no "proof" to claim this as true, but I believe it is) is because the INTJ has no problem choosing a subject they want to study and then forging forward and doing research in that area. In the process of choosing something to study the INTJ has, in essence, forsaken all the other areas of study. They can still have outside interests, but the bulk of their time will be spent in their subject.

    The INTP doesn't want to (or has a hard time) choosing just one subject to explore because he wants to explore truth as a "whole". If I go get a Ph.D. in Physics, then I feel like I'm abandoning the arts, World History, Psychology, Business, Nutrition and Physical Education, spirituality, and everything else that encompasses "truth". I want to explore it all as a whole. I'm not interested in picking one of those things and making it "my own personal expertise". I want to be knowledgeable on all of it.

    INTJ wants to uncover new truths in a given area - proactively advancing what we know as truth.

    INTP wants to understand truth. It is what it is, we don't want to change it or manipulate it. We see it as unchangeable, and so we just want to understand it in all it's complexity.
    I think this is a misconception.

  2. #12
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    This is known as INTPs being jealous of how much faster Ni works than Ti, and thinking Te is all that goes on in an INTJ's head.



    This is why the INTJ should be in charge of formulating the plan of attack based on which insights, developed via brainstorming sessions with the ENTP and INTP, he/she deems the most promising.



    This is why the INTP will not get the job done, unless he/she has an INTJ telling them to focus.



    This is what an INTP would like, but the search would be inefficient, take too long, and lose funding.

    The proper team would be:

    INTJ
    | V
    | INTPs+ ENTPs
    V
    ISTJs

    In addition to the above-mentioned brain-storming sessions between the INTJ, ENTP, and INTP:

    The INTJ would be focused on directing and communicating between the NTPs and the ISTJs.

    The NTPs would be focused on the more exploratory, ground-breaking lab work.

    The ISTJs would be focused on performing the tasks deemed necessary based on the results of the NTPs' lab work, as determined by the INTJ.

    The project would be focused but flexible, broad enough to check the best possible options, but detailed enough not to screw anything up.

    The results would be accurate, insightful, and obtained in an efficient manner, thereby maintaining the project's funding.

    *

    INTJs are the rarest of the NTs for a reason: you need fewer chiefs than indians.

    *

    With regards to the OP: I don't think you can distinguish between an INTJ and an INTP based on those criteria...
    no.
    optimal results would be obtained by intj shutting up unless intp and entp asks something from him. but then again intjs can be replaced(in most cases) by wikipedia + google. intj would give the information faster most the times, but then again he is eating the fundings for the project. i guess the question if intj is needed at all depends how fast the intp and entp can look up information from internet and what kind of information they need for the project(if it can be found from internet easily or not).

    i guess estj would be handy for the projects money management, making up schedules, doing the paper work and serving coffee at the side.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  3. #13
    Supreme High Commander Andy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousFeeling View Post
    What are the differences between the way INTPs and INTJs approach collecting evidence to prove the existence of something? Which one would use evidence to prove a theory, and which one would use it to prove someone else's convictions? Or could it be a bit of both types?
    Frequently their approach is exactly the same. The differance lies in why they are looking for the evidence, and what they intend to do with it. INTPs are often more concerned with trying to prove some theoretical point, where as INTJs are trying to to show that an idea can be used for something practical.
    Don't make whine out of sour grapes.

  4. #14
    From the Undertow CuriousFeeling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy View Post
    Frequently their approach is exactly the same. The differance lies in why they are looking for the evidence, and what they intend to do with it. INTPs are often more concerned with trying to prove some theoretical point, where as INTJs are trying to to show that an idea can be used for something practical.
    So basically the INTP is looking for evidence to show the inner mechanisms of Theory A, ... whereas INTJs look for evidence to show that Theory A is a useful tool... either to help things run more efficiently, cure a disease, etc.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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    “Thoughts are the shadows of our feelings -- always darker, emptier and simpler.”
    ― Friedrich Nietzsche




  5. #15
    Supreme High Commander Andy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousFeeling View Post
    So basically the INTP is looking for evidence to show the inner mechanisms of Theory A, ... whereas INTJs look for evidence to show that Theory A is a useful tool... either to help things run more efficiently, cure a disease, etc.
    Often, yes. It's worth noting that an INTJ can also go looking for those "inner mechanisms", but they will limit their efforts to those theories they feel have practical use, hoping that improved understanding will then give better results. Ni as a prime function demands a thorough understanding of something before action is taken, but it is still coupled with Te in this example. What you are describing is perhaps more of an ENTJ approach - Te results first, Ni understanding latter.

    INTPs lead with Ti, a function which creates a strong sense of value towards technical issues. This value makes them willing to explore subjects that don't obvious benefits, as they feel the process/results have valur purely for what they are without need of external justification for their existence. Hence the associate of NTPs with blue sky research. They will happily set out into the scientific/academic wilderness without a notion of where they will end, content in the knowledge that the path looks interesting. Often all they come back with is a new theory about solving rubiks cubes, or yet another idea that involves squares prime numbers. Occationally, they have something useful to show for their efforts, althoough sometimes it takes decades before someone finds a use for their research. Imaginary numbers was one such example, which I bel;ieve gets used in circuit calculations these days.
    Don't make whine out of sour grapes.

  6. #16
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy View Post
    INTPs lead with Ti, a function which creates a strong sense of value towards technical issues. This value makes them willing to explore subjects that don't obvious benefits, as they feel the process/results have valur purely for what they are without need of external justification for their existence. Hence the associate of NTPs with blue sky research. They will happily set out into the scientific/academic wilderness without a notion of where they will end, content in the knowledge that the path looks interesting. Often all they come back with is a new theory about solving rubiks cubes, or yet another idea that involves squares prime numbers. Occationally, they have something useful to show for their efforts, althoough sometimes it takes decades before someone finds a use for their research. Imaginary numbers was one such example, which I bel;ieve gets used in circuit calculations these days.
    This rings true to some extent, other than the part about "They will happily set out into the scientific/academic wilderness without a notion of where they will end, content in the knowledge that the path looks interesting.". It's not that we don't have any notion where we will end up, we just honestly want the information, the data, or the research to lead us to truth - wherever that happens to end up. We realize going in that there are a number of possible outcomes to whatever research we may be doing - even outcomes we hadn't thought of yet. It would almost be like if every bit of existing evidence said that "the earth is flat". And then an NTP would set out to find the corners and/or the end of the earth, knowing all the while that it might not be flat. Maybe it's a cube, maybe it's a sphere. Maybe it's something else altogether that hasn't been proposed by anyone yet. We don't rule out *crazy* possibilities - we consider them as plausible until it's been proven otherwise. We'll set out to find the truth and we'll get to the bottom of it one way or another - even if we have to sail the 7 seas ourselves. It's basically an attitude of "forget what the experts say, I'm going to find out for myself". I'm going to go places that others haven't gone before and whatever turns up, turns up. Rather than us leading the data to where we want it to go (or where we expect it to go, or where others say it *should* go), we want the data and the information to lead us to the truth. And sometimes that goes into unexpected places and unexpected results (aka, "blue sky").
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    no.
    optimal results would be obtained by intj shutting up unless intp and entp asks something from him. but then again intjs can be replaced(in most cases) by wikipedia + google. intj would give the information faster most the times, but then again he is eating the fundings for the project. i guess the question if intj is needed at all depends how fast the intp and entp can look up information from internet and what kind of information they need for the project(if it can be found from internet easily or not).

    i guess estj would be handy for the projects money management, making up schedules, doing the paper work and serving coffee at the side.
    Once again, I was several steps ahead of you:

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra
    This is what an INTP would like, but the search would be inefficient, take too long, and lose funding.

  8. #18
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    I hope this doesn't turn into a thread of "my type is a better researcher than your type".
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    I hope this doesn't turn into a thread of "my type is a better researcher than your type".
    No need.

    Everyone already knows that INTJs are better than INTPs at everything but being useless wastes of space.


  10. #20
    Senior Member Rex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    INTJs want closure faster, and will more likely take mental and physical short cuts to get there.
    Fairly correct for me at least. I take the first opening i get to test my impression of something if it involves little risk.

    I broke a small ventilasjon fan once because i was sure that that fan could not suck up steel schreds from a conveior belt. Surface area vs densitity and all that.

    ffs how was i supposed to know it had huge air gaps and all. i was 21years +

    when we found out it was raining steel screeds from the exit pipe 5meter above.

    My collegue who was in charge is a ISTP i guess . hes a biker.

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