[NT] NTPs and NTJs: Do you feel more in common with each other, or with STPs and STJs?

[Uytuun]

I guess in a way, I instinctively believe good process brings good results, even if the results aren't what I anticipated, and so those results are the "ideal" for me vs some preformulated goal.

Can't overstate the importance of realising things like that when you want to go out and play with an INTP! I wonder if you guys can find a way to enter Ni or can crawl into our heads a little as well...

Developing Fi has made me understand the concept of Ti better...I recently had a grating experience with something an INTP said about relationships that sounded unbearably simplistic, absolute, overly pragmatic, and on top of that fuelled by Si-ism (cliché)...it was inferior Fe...it made me go "omg, that's what I did with Te when I was younger, that's what it must have sounded like to Ti doms"...then I realised how Te works with Ni and managed to put his utterance into a new perspective.

In my experience women INTs manage to wrestle from under the spell of Fi-Se and Si-Fe better (or earlier) than the men...though the gap seems larger among INTPs.

 

[INTPness]

Can't overstate the importance of realising things like that when you want to go out and play with an INTP! I wonder if you guys can find a way to enter Ni or can crawl into our heads a little as well...

I'm not really at a point with INTJ's where I feel like I can "get in their head" - I find that nearly impossible to do. But when I'm interacting with them, I try to keep Ne somewhat on a leash (is this wrong, from the INTJ perspective? would you rather me let it run rampant?) because I know they like structure, they like things somewhat neat and tidy, and also exactly because of what you mentioned about "walking, walking, skipping, tumbling". As the INTP in the conversation, I can sense when the "tumbling" begins to happen - and I sense that it's not always appreciated. So, I just try to stay somewhat structured. It's almost like I'm trying to be an INTJ myself so that we'll be speaking a similar language. I recently met with a host of NTJ's - like 15 of them - scientists. I was able to explain myself, talk about my perspective, etc., but it felt like I couldn't be "funny" - like I had to be ultra-serious. Then, suddenly, I met with another man in his office and he said, "I just want you to know that I'm the sloppy, absent-minded scientist of the group. I'm not like the rest. Let me show you some of the things I'm researching." Instantly, I recognized Ne!! It was like I could finally take a deep breath and relax. Tell a joke, be funny, let my guard down, be non-politically-correct, burp out loud if I wanted to (I wouldn't, but it's good to know that you could if you wanted), talk about something other than the task at hand, etc. I thought he was INTP at first, but he turned out to be ENTP.

I'm not saying this to bash NTJ's. I really enjoy my NTJ friends and acquaintances. I'm just offering perspective from the INTP side. I know that I could probably give Ne more free reign if I wanted to when interacting with NTJ's, but I sometimes don't know how, if, or when it would be appropriate. It feels like there is an unwritten rule floating around that you have to be serious all the time. I know this isn't true because I have NTJ friends who I play basketball with or hang out and joke with, but in a professional setting it always seems so ultra-serious and I can't quite get in their heads. One good thing is that I know I can give Ti a voice and they'll appreciate that. I can speak bluntly and put my knowledge out there and that usually goes over pretty well. Ne, on the other hand, you just never know if it's going to work or not.

 

[Uytuun]

(is this wrong, from the INTJ perspective? would you rather me let it run rampant?) because I know they like structure, they like things somewhat neat and tidy, and also exactly because of what you mentioned about "walking, walking, skipping, tumbling". As the INTP in the conversation, I can sense when the "tumbling" begins to happen - and I sense that it's not always appreciated.

I think that depends on the INTJ in question (they're a little more Te in professional environments for sure). I love the tumbling part personally...and I love Ne. I used to feel the same way about Ni and INTPs, actually...I'd sense Ti and just back off with the crazy whereas with Ne doms the click happens almost automatically. I used to feel like INTPs were rolling their eyes a lot when I infused Ni into the convo. I think it's mostly the effect of it being so foreign to them, not necessarily that they hate it. I'd wager the same goes for INTJs with regard to Ne. How does one tease out INTP Ne?

Ne, on the other hand, you just never know if it's going to work or not.

Heh, when does Ne "work"?

 

[Lady_X]

ni silliness is so much different than ne silliness isn't it? it's funny comparing the enfps and infps to the infjs i know.

um...that wasn't really relevant sorry...thinking out loud. these threads are interesting tho...

 

[IZthe411]

From the flip perspective

I relate better with TPs over TJs. I think TPs ease and outlook is much more appealing and easier to work with over TJs', (especially inexperienced TJs) sometimes rigid and unchanging approach to things. Regardless if it's Si or Ni, if the user's perspective is set, there's really no room to argue differently. If I had it my way I'd be one of few, or the only TJ in a group of people. If we're not on the same page, it's hard to progress. and this is in any relationship.

 

[IZthe411]

Ah, that makes sense.

I actually was just in a project meeting and I had forgotten about the PM -- she's an ISTJ, but actually personable and engaging. (At least I think she's I, not E.) And when you said this (sorry, I shifted a few things around to put all your ideas together), I got that "aha" moment, yes, the personable-ness in her is when I get this vibe from her. She's actually listening to what people say.

She just also is very strongly the following way:



Yes, I see a big difference between Si and Se in terms of ideas, Si digs in and defends their singular perspective; and I have the same experiences with SFP that you have, except I'm connecting my Ne with their Se as our common thread -- we're bouncing ideas all over and brainstorming as our means of connect.

We've had the Si vs T battle on our analyst team before -- the ISTJ has already pulled the, "I object!" and our "objection overruled" and her final "But I strenuously object, so that's just the way it is!" strategy, which had to go upstream to the Grade 14 branch chiefs to get resolved. The PM was telling us analysts how to do our job, even though all of us disagreed with her... and her only reasoning was the, "But I object, so THERE!" maneuver.

But when she's not in that mode, I think she's the first female ISTJ I've actually felt a large degree of warmth from. Part of it's because she looks at everyone on the team as an individual person, not just some calculation or part of her structure to be shuffled around. She's well-rounded.

I actually can't stand this either....I have this in connectioin with my ISTP boss. He hates someone to just tell him what to do, especially if the reason is 'because I'm the boss'. I HATE THAT!.

I find that I have my viewpoint on the issue, but if the opposing view is compelling enough I'm all for trying it differently. I am still interested in the results LOL.

 

[IZthe411]

I'm not really at a point with INTJ's where I feel like I can "get in their head" - I find that nearly impossible to do. But when I'm interacting with them, I try to keep Ne somewhat on a leash (is this wrong, from the INTJ perspective? would you rather me let it run rampant?) because I know they like structure, they like things somewhat neat and tidy, and also exactly because of what you mentioned about "walking, walking, skipping, tumbling". As the INTP in the conversation, I can sense when the "tumbling" begins to happen - and I sense that it's not always appreciated. So, I just try to stay somewhat structured. It's almost like I'm trying to be an INTJ myself so that we'll be speaking a similar language. I recently met with a host of NTJ's - like 15 of them - scientists. I was able to explain myself, talk about my perspective, etc., but it felt like I couldn't be "funny" - like I had to be ultra-serious. Then, suddenly, I met with another man in his office and he said, "I just want you to know that I'm the sloppy, absent-minded scientist of the group. I'm not like the rest. Let me show you some of the things I'm researching." Instantly, I recognized Ne!! It was like I could finally take a deep breath and relax. Tell a joke, be funny, let my guard down, be non-politically-correct, burp out loud if I wanted to (I wouldn't, but it's good to know that you could if you wanted), talk about something other than the task at hand, etc. I thought he was INTP at first, but he turned out to be ENTP.

I'm not saying this to bash NTJ's. I really enjoy my NTJ friends and acquaintances. I'm just offering perspective from the INTP side. I know that I could probably give Ne more free reign if I wanted to when interacting with NTJ's, but I sometimes don't know how, if, or when it would be appropriate. It feels like there is an unwritten rule floating around that you have to be serious all the time. I know this isn't true because I have NTJ friends who I play basketball with or hang out and joke with, but in a professional setting it always seems so ultra-serious and I can't quite get in their heads. One good thing is that I know I can give Ti a voice and they'll appreciate that. I can speak bluntly and put my knowledge out there and that usually goes over pretty well. Ne, on the other hand, you just never know if it's going to work or not.

Actually I hate that 'super serious' state as well. When I'm new to a situation, I usually 'play along' until I have learned what is most important to the group, and then put my own spin on things. Sometimes that vibe is due to the group being made up of serious minded people who don't mind the cutting up that I bring around; they just aren't the ones who are going to get it started.

 

[INTPness]

I used to feel like INTPs were rolling their eyes a lot when I infused Ni into the convo.

Really? I never would have guessed that. I'm not sure I'd even know when Ni was being infused into the conversation anyways, so I hope I don't give off the "eye roll" vibe.

How does one tease out INTP Ne?

Just do something crazy or funny or something that's a little bit "outside of the box" for the given situation. In other words, don't be "business as usual". It could be something really simple. Like when I was visiting those 15 NTJ's, in the middle of all the seriousness, one of them offered me a soda from the corporate refrigerator. As he opened the fridge, there were like 4 cases of soda. He said something like, "Wow, lots of soda. Do you just want one or do you want to take home a whole case of the stuff?" That's really all it took to loosen me up and to show me that I could joke and be light with this guy. I said something like, "Yeah, give me the whole case...and that box of cookies over there!"

If he would have just opened the fridge and handed me a soda and then began asking more "work related" questions and being all serious, then the interaction would have continued to be very "dry" and dull between the two of us. I went to lunch with another INTJ that day and I spent the whole hour picking his brain. Asking him all sorts of questions about his field, basically being an INTP. I sensed that he liked it (?), but he never let his guard down. He displayed nothing but stoicism for the entire hour. I wanted to be able to crack a joke about the waitress or say something off the wall, but I didn't feel that it was appropriate - he was too "business like", so I didn't feel it would be welcomed. So, it was just a lot of Ti/Te, which is certainly interesting and informative, but it gets boring real quick.

 

[INTPness]

I'll add that ENTP's will automatically use Ne in any situation, being that it's their primary. With INTP's (or at least myself), since it's secondary, I'm always waiting for something to trigger it. It's like I'm waiting for a cue that it would be welcomed into this particular situation/conversation.

 

[figsfiggyfigs]

I really enjoy the company of an stp or ntp than ntjs. I like ntps the most though. Theyre a blast; I get along with them the most, although I have more in common with other ntjs, I still prefer ntps.

 

[Jwill]

I guess I've grown up around so many SJs that I feel more comfortable around them. And, thinking of my INTP friend versus my ISTJ friend... I seemed to have more in common with my ISTJ friend. We shared a similar sense of humor. And in fiction, I usually like the ISTJ more than the INTP. The ISTJ is me, but more rule-oriented and less imaginative. The INTP is amusingly scatter-brained, which is the opposite of me.

 

[Zarathustra]

I guess I've grown up around so many SJs that I feel more comfortable around them. And, thinking of my INTP friend versus my ISTJ friend... I seemed to have more in common with my ISTJ friend. We shared a similar sense of humor. And in fiction, I usually like the ISTJ more than the INTP. The ISTJ is me, but more rule-oriented and less imaginative. The INTP is amusingly scatter-brained, which is the opposite of me.

Yeah, I feel ya.

I forgot to mention, and didn't even think of the fact, that two other members of my family are ISTJs (one might be INTJ...), which could have an impact.

 

[Octarine]

I feel I have more in common with people who share my interests, rather than MBTI type.

 

[Zarathustra]

Well, that's not the question.

 

[Kasper]

So ya'll know for me "having more in common with" is not necessarily the same as prefer to be around!

There's a commonality I notice in NTs, even NTJs, NFs have a distinct difference yet I still notice more in common with them than STPs, I'd have no objections to feeling more in synch with STPs, while they have a special skill of rubbing some people up the wrong way with their tiggeresque enthusiasm I can't get enough of it.

 

[Zarathustra]

So ya'll know for me "having more in common with" is not necessarily the same as prefer to be around!

Thank you for pointing this out...

The wording I chose was not the best, but I'm amazed in both these threads how many people seem to have missed the point...