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Thread: NTP visulaization?

  1. #21
    Senior Member Array INTPness's Avatar
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    Jan 2009


    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecttcelfeR View Post
    Ti helped form the motivation to organize, but it didn't really organize it, that's Te's job. Ideas?
    Te organizes things in the outside world. Ti organizes thoughts/ideas/processes internally. That's why our thoughts are sometimes difficult to explain to others. Te users explain what they are thinking very easily and in a straightforward manner. You can just watch them for a few minutes and see the Te at work. Te often figures things out as it explains things to other people or as it moves into action. Ours is more in our head. It's not readily visible to other people. They might see that we are thinking about something, but they won't necessarily know what we are thinking or what we are trying to organize - again, because it's an internal process.
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.

    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

  2. #22


    Ah, yes, you are right. I was thinking that organization didn't mean logical consistency exactly. Organization can lead to logical consistency though.

  3. #23
    Writing... Array Tamske's Avatar
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    Oct 2009


    I hate mindmaps. I can only grasp them when they are very simple, at most five or six items on it. My students love them, however... I've always had the feeling that I needed to understand the concept fully before I was able to make a mindmap and then it was useless anyway.
    By the way, do you know that new sort of presentation program? My husband (ESTJ) told me "it was something for Ns". My answer: "Then I'm an S." Indeed there ware much more links, more interconnections and less of a structure, and... yes, it was way too much intuitive (in the MBTI sense) to me.
    Well that's my Sensor side...
    Got questions? Ask an ENTP!
    I'm female. I just can't draw women

  4. #24
    Mr. Blue Array entropie's Avatar
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    Apr 2008
    3w2 so


    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    Forget the term "flow chart". Do you have a tendency when using Ti to "organize thoughts" inside your mind? I don't really have a flow chart in my mind - I wouldn't want to be that anal, but there's an organization of ideas for sure. And in my mind, that organization is very neat and tidy. But, it's extremely flexible. You make a good point about "if Bob is ill tomorrow then the whole flow chart is a massive fail". I think NTP's are great at contingencies. We're able to bend and flex as the situation dictates. So, although I may have things organized in my mind how they will most likely happen, I know that I may have to adjust. In fact, that's probably a key difference between P's and J's. I have no problem adjusting my plans according to how the day plays out. I think a lot of J's get frustrated when things don't go how they had hoped. If my plans for the day relied on the fact that Bob would show up and then he suddenly doesn't show up, it's not really that big of a deal. I'm simply going to think of a way to work on the project without Bob being present (do it myself, call another expert to fill in for him, complete the project using an entirely different method altogether, or maybe I'll just have to wait until he returns to work tomorrow or next week). Either way, my "plans" are always in pencil (sort of a "skeleton" outline of how I'd like things to go) and are quite frequently revised throughout the day. I think this "flexing" and "reframing" of things is pretty common with P's.
    Sorry my english isnt always too good, so I keep using the same word for different meanings more often. I'm just too lazy to look words up .

    I agree with what you said, it's the same for me. I cant really describe my thinking at all, I have fundamental deep issues to articulate my thinking at all. I most often think in words, so talk to myself in the head or I think in music, what is basically singing to myself in the head, but beyond that, there isnt much. I think in images when I calculate, then I write the formulas in my head and calculate. Can solve compound fractions easily in my head, by just using the symbols from math. This tho only works when I am not concentrated. Otherwise to formulate words or images in my head is too taxing and does make me work very slowly on a task.

    But when I am working on a project and need to tell other people something so they can help, I am fundamentally lost at articulating myself. I then stutter things like "You have to push the pin and then screw in the hole where the ball is". Noone understands me then, but concentrating for me then to find the right words is just more work as if I did it myself right away.

    I am a very efficient worker, I am fast and I can handle the most complex systems, watch my blog for referrence: ( Ent's forge-welded foundry auxiliary material production ... in the basement )

    The problem tho is, I ultimatively think abstractly and it is fundamentally taxing for me to explain myself to others. Even writing this here is draining my ressources. I just dont find the right formulation and it makes me angry.

    They say entp's are a mess, their head is like the lottery, you'll never know what lucky number the spinning wheel does put out. I say they all suck and can go **** themselves. My head is like the most well-structured and tidy room there is. If my head is in busy mode, I can concentrate and delve upon one train of thought for decades. If it is in sleep mode it can have 5 trains of thought in 1 minute and forget about 3 afterwards. The key to understand this tho is that it is for entp's about motivation ( it's always about motivation ! ). An intp may derive motivation by the pure single fact that he wants to get a thing right, before he spills it out. To an entp the topic the train of thought deals with, needs to be motivating. If its boring you wont have an entp's attention for too long. That of course makes intps the better analysts, I am not doubting that; I just find it wrong when people say entps are quick shooters, who dont think; cause that's not true. they think when they want to think.

    Real problem for me tho is combining my abstract world with the real world. I am a great theorist, am totally mathboy and can program you lists of codes and still keep the overview. If my motivation changes tho to another thing, I'll forget about the last thing completly and wont be even able to read my own code. That's the major problem for me, cause it made me an ultimatively bad learner and my abilities to remember are like fuck. I dont knopw how often I already repeated myself in this forum and the majority of my past lies in shadows for me, the only thing I can remember are feelings and emotions, they are the keynodes in my remembrance and are the only thing that makes me able to remember at all.

    If I sometimes listen to an old song, I remember a feeling and then I start to remember the situation from the past when I heard it the first time. So music is my driving force in life, cause it helps me to keep my sanity. Beyond that it's a world of abstract forms, hunches and non articulated things; I am glad my gf is an infp, we have to comunicate in nearly zero words and tho do understand each other 100%. To outsiders, we tho look like the inventors of crypthography

    Merry christmas to you
    Johari / Nohari

    "How dreadful!" cried Lord Henry. "I can stand brute force, but brute reason is quite unbearable. There is something unfair about its use. It is hitting below the intellect."
    ~ Oscar Wilde - The picture of Dorian Gray

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