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[NT] ENFP confused by INTx

AgentF

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_Poke_: that is my little curse. when i give myself a chance to reflect on my emotions, the Ti comes out and i am able to detach. but i need a powerful reason to do that, because my mind is a dangerous, lonely-as-hell, unsocial place. i can relate to INTx's in that regard, at least mine. if i lived my life based on careful reflection, i would look very much like a deranged bushwoman.

holding an ipad.
 

Salomé

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1) Angst/Guilt: he knows he's being unfair (in terms of not bringing much to the relationship) but he's not really able to do more (either he can't or he won't)

2) Emotional Ambiguity: My question to you is: what does it take to get an INTx out of the gray area?
Maybe time, maybe nothing will. Not something you can really do anything about, has to come from him.
(I've never yet been able to conquer it in myself)

3) Random Intervals/Lack of Pre-Planning: Any advice about his lack of pre-planning? Is this an INTx trait or does he lack the courage to tell me he just doesn't feel strongly enough about me to pre-plan?

Certainly an INTP (more than J) trait. It needn't bear any relation to strength of feelings, we just don't really do planning. If this is a big problem for you you shouldn't be with one because they'll drive you crazy. ENFPs don't usually get too uptight about that kind of thing.

it hurts like hell when he withdraws, but i recently told him (when he expressed regret over not being able to be more of a constant in my life) that i have decided that his inability to spend more time with me has less to do with me, than it has to do with him and things he's struggling with. his reply? "Exactly." i totally trusted my instinct on that one, and was amazed at how quickly he was to agree with that statement.

can any of you INTx's relate to his reply?

Sure.
Don't expect it to change though.
I don't really understand the "hurts like hell" comment, coupled with your supposed understanding that it has nothing to do with you, and I doubt he will ever be able to do so either.
You'll end up guilting him about something that is as natural as breathing for him (in fact, you've already started the process). He'll end up resenting you for being needy and unreasonable. You'll both be miserable and you'll break up.
INTs are a bad bet.
 

rav3n

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agentfurrina, you remind me a lot like another member who's an ENFJ with an INTP, getting herself walked all over even at the 5 month stage of their "relationship". From what I can see, you're putting positive spin on every action of his. If you want to see him clearly, best to give your head a really heard shake, to loosen up and drain away some of those fluffy infatuation hormones.

He's human. Possibly smart. But lacking feeling and capable of detaching at a moment's notice, if he feels threatened. He's not ready for the investment level that you're at. Patience might or might not get him to a reasonable level but there's a good possibility he won't ever get to the level of emotional investment that you're at so be prepared if you want to continue with him. And dropping everything at a moment's notice to see him is the biggest mistake you can make towards any NT, type or gender. Live your life which includes keeping to other plans if they were made prior to his contact.
 

AgentF

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Red Herring: i understand the reason frequency may seem to dilute potency or cheapen the expression...but with an ENFP, it's like a bubbling fountain of love rises up and spills over the surface. it is always there, waiting to be activated: social gatherings, being in love, being with friends, adventures of any kind.

we are perplexed by someone withdrawing after we've been close, because the nature of our feeling for that person is so pure. how could they not want more of it? i'm not the first person to compare ENFPs to puppy dogs, and it really does feel that way when you love someone. bounding all about them, nuzzling them into action/affection, masterminding whimsical activities for the two of you to enjoy. it's ridiculous, really.

maybe that unicorn vomiting rainbows for the world to enjoy, is actually an ENFP. :)
 

Poki

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I dont see Ps just dropping people that easy. This is different dropping then going off to do something in the manner that ExFPs seem to do. Ps dont really "drop" people we arent that uptight. We arent one to really initiate, but thats different then dropping someone. With me its more that I dont want to force myself on someone.
 

rav3n

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Instead of dancing around the issue by hurting his feelings with rejection, why not just discuss it with him that both of you have lives and that it's courteous to give extra lead time. Also ask him if he would be happy and consider it fair if you cancelled plans with other people, in order to be with him at a moment's notice. His responses to these questions will shed some light into his character.
 
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Red Herring

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^ this. Also, friends are well intentioned, they love you and only want the best for you, but they tend to give poor relationship advice, especially at the early stage, when they only have your venting to go on. You should be able to sort this out like adults.
 

AgentF

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yes. excellent point. he actually tried bringing this up one time when i let him know i could do something with him, "but it will require some juggling."

he was quick to point out that i needn't juggle or inconvenience myself, and that another mutually-agreeable option existed, but that he was just throwing it out there in case i was interested. so he seemed courteous and respectful when i hinted that some effort on my part would be involved to accommodate him...
 

AgentF

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Salomé: you raise a good point about the tension between claiming to accept him how he is (which is really a Sad-inducing compromise which i understand poorly) and the hurting-like-hellness. i think if i can survive the Road To Commitment without guilting/getting hurt/pressuring him, there may be hope. but i don't see how i can do this without communicating to him that i'm stretching myself.

and it seems that INT's run for the hills if they sense expectations. which seems highly likely over the course of that conversation...regardless of what i say/don't say. he will sense an expectation, and possibly bolt. in that case, i suppose "rejection is protection."
 
R

ReflecTcelfeR

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The ambiguity of his feelings might not be because he is confused necessarily, because he has stated that he knows his feelings are in the gray area, right?, but because he isn't sure about the strength of your emotions. If he is confused then perhaps you need to tell him, or perhaps show some of the conviction that you feel. With your certainty he may be able to relax a little and open up. It also moves the relationship forward.
 

rav3n

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I honestly don't understand the NF approach to relationships with INTx's. They don't need more TLC than any other type. In doing so, you're enabling grown men to be more selfish and inconsiderate. Aren't you ultimately looking for a mature relationship with another responsible adult? So consider the beginnings as setting the tone for the balance of what might or might not happen, like a relationship.

Where the difference in treatment might lie is how you approach conflict with them. Instead of blasting them with a wall of emotions or emotional concerns, you're going to have to detach to some degree and discuss the issues in a logical and organised way, using reasonable rationale. No tears or accusations. Be calm.
 

AgentF

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I honestly don't understand the NF approach to relationships with INTx's. They don't need more TLC than any other type. In doing so, you're enabling grown men to be more selfish and inconsiderate. Aren't you ultimately looking for a mature relationship with another responsible adult? So consider the beginnings as setting the tone for the balance of what might or might not happen, like a relationship.

yes. i think this is a non-personality-type-specific issue of my own. i suppose i need to value a committed/considerate partner more than just brilliance/physical compatibility/tenderness. one idea is to just accept his invitations when they suit me, and see whether he cares enough to respond/notice/modify his behavior.

i won't bank on it, though. i think you're point above is correct: i need to honestly/rationally communicate that i like it when he asks me out in advance, then go about my life and see whether he's actually interested in being in it.
 

Salomé

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you raise a good point about the tension between claiming to accept him how he is (which is really a Sad-inducing compromise which i understand poorly) and the hurting-like-hellness. i think if i can survive the Road To Commitment without guilting/getting hurt/pressuring him, there may be hope. but i don't see how i can do this without communicating to him that i'm stretching myself.

and it seems that INT's run for the hills if they sense expectations. which seems highly likely over the course of that conversation...regardless of what i say/don't say. he will sense an expectation, and bolt.

I think it depends on the delivery. All relationships have expectations. Even the desire not to be burdened with expectations, is an implicit expectation... Why should his be more important than yours?
INTs like to understand very specifically what is expected of them so that they aren't completely taken aback when people get vexed about stuff that they just don't think is important, or when they find out that their actions have been interpreted in perplexingly unintentional ways.

If you can communicate your needs in terms that are neither overly emotional nor manipulative, he may well be open to that. Certainly he'll tell you what he can and cannot do. More importantly, you'll feel better about yourself and less anxious about the relationship.
If you don't, it will weigh heavily in the air between you and he'll know that he's not doing something right but he probably won't have much of a clue about how to fix it.

EDIT ^^Well, I guess this was all covered above.
 

AgentF

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The ambiguity of his feelings might not be because he is confused necessarily...but because he isn't sure about the strength of your emotions. If he is confused then perhaps you need to tell him, or perhaps show some of the conviction that you feel. With your certainty he may be able to relax a little and open up. It also moves the relationship forward.

i am 100% certain he knows how i feel. how could he not, when i'm always available and very loving when we're together? one area of ambiguity, though, is the dual message i've [unfortunately] given him. i previously thought i wasn't ready for a relationship, and on a few occasions told him that i'd like to have one with him but felt that i still needed to to heal. a few days ago i came to the realization that i want a relationship with him, regardless of whether i'm objectively "ready."

i have not yet had an opportunity to communicate that to him. i cannot imagine it would be a surprise to him, but perhaps he is a very literal-minded person and sublimates any intuition* he may have that i want more.

*it would be more than an intuition...i've almost always been available at the last minute, willing to drive 20 minutes in the cold/rain to see him, etc. i'm a disgusting romantic and looking for an exceptional man, but have probably gone too far for this one. which is why i am going to try turning down invitations that are inconvenient to me. acts which, sadly, may push him way...but what other choice do i have?
 

AgentF

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I think it depends on the delivery. All relationships have expectations. Even the desire not to be burdened with expectations, is an implicit expectation... Why should his be more important than yours?...If you don't, it will weigh heavily in the air between you and he'll know that he's not doing something right but he probably won't have much of a clue about how to fix it.

EDIT ^^Well, I guess this was all covered above.

a lot of wisdom there. thank you, i'm quite grateful. i particularly like what you say about him sensing he isn't doing something right. better to be forthright with him in a rational way and save myself so much anxiety (and trigger guilt, and distancing, on his part).

i'm slowly beginning to understand how to proceed...thank you to everyone who has contributed to this thread! i will keep you all apprised...
 
R

ReflecTcelfeR

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a few days ago i came to the realization that i want a relationship with him, regardless of whether i'm objectively "ready."

i have not yet had an opportunity to communicate that to him. i cannot imagine it would be a surprise to him, but perhaps he is a very literal-minded person and sublimates any intuition* he may have that i want more.

Do this then. Test your theory :yes:.
 

IZthe411

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i am 100% certain he knows how i feel. how could he not, when i'm always available and very loving when we're together? one area of ambiguity, though, is the dual message i've [unfortunately] given him. i previously thought i wasn't ready for a relationship, and on a few occasions told him that i'd like to have one with him but felt that i still needed to to heal. a few days ago i came to the realization that i want a relationship with him, regardless of whether i'm objectively "ready."

How are you sure that he responds well to what's bolded, then add to that the layer that you may be communicating yourself to be unsure of how you feel?
 

AgentF

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How are you sure that he responds well to what's bolded, then add to that the layer that you may be communicating yourself to be unsure of how you feel?

yeah. the realization that i'm ready for a relationship is new and something i need to communicate.
 

Lily flower

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I think this guy has a major commitment problem and he feels guilty because he knows that in the end he is going to bail. I would be really careful with this one.
 

Poki

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Salomé: you raise a good point about the tension between claiming to accept him how he is (which is really a Sad-inducing compromise which i understand poorly) and the hurting-like-hellness. i think if i can survive the Road To Commitment without guilting/getting hurt/pressuring him, there may be hope. but i don't see how i can do this without communicating to him that i'm stretching myself.

and it seems that INT's run for the hills if they sense expectations. which seems highly likely over the course of that conversation...regardless of what i say/don't say. he will sense an expectation, and possibly bolt. in that case, i suppose "rejection is protection."

To me this shouldnt be an option, but its your choice.
 
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