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  1. #21
    Unlimited Dancemoves ® AgentF's Avatar
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    _Poke_: that is my little curse. when i give myself a chance to reflect on my emotions, the Ti comes out and i am able to detach. but i need a powerful reason to do that, because my mind is a dangerous, lonely-as-hell, unsocial place. i can relate to INTx's in that regard, at least mine. if i lived my life based on careful reflection, i would look very much like a deranged bushwoman.

    holding an ipad.
    I may be kindly, I am ordinarily gentle, but in my line of business I am obliged to will terribly what I will at all.
    ~ Catherine the Great


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    Johari.

  2. #22
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    1) Angst/Guilt: he knows he's being unfair (in terms of not bringing much to the relationship) but he's not really able to do more (either he can't or he won't)

    2) Emotional Ambiguity: My question to you is: what does it take to get an INTx out of the gray area?
    Maybe time, maybe nothing will. Not something you can really do anything about, has to come from him.
    (I've never yet been able to conquer it in myself)

    3) Random Intervals/Lack of Pre-Planning: Any advice about his lack of pre-planning? Is this an INTx trait or does he lack the courage to tell me he just doesn't feel strongly enough about me to pre-plan?

    Certainly an INTP (more than J) trait. It needn't bear any relation to strength of feelings, we just don't really do planning. If this is a big problem for you you shouldn't be with one because they'll drive you crazy. ENFPs don't usually get too uptight about that kind of thing.

    it hurts like hell when he withdraws, but i recently told him (when he expressed regret over not being able to be more of a constant in my life) that i have decided that his inability to spend more time with me has less to do with me, than it has to do with him and things he's struggling with. his reply? "Exactly." i totally trusted my instinct on that one, and was amazed at how quickly he was to agree with that statement.

    can any of you INTx's relate to his reply?
    Sure.
    Don't expect it to change though.
    I don't really understand the "hurts like hell" comment, coupled with your supposed understanding that it has nothing to do with you, and I doubt he will ever be able to do so either.
    You'll end up guilting him about something that is as natural as breathing for him (in fact, you've already started the process). He'll end up resenting you for being needy and unreasonable. You'll both be miserable and you'll break up.
    INTs are a bad bet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  3. #23
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    agentfurrina, you remind me a lot like another member who's an ENFJ with an INTP, getting herself walked all over even at the 5 month stage of their "relationship". From what I can see, you're putting positive spin on every action of his. If you want to see him clearly, best to give your head a really heard shake, to loosen up and drain away some of those fluffy infatuation hormones.

    He's human. Possibly smart. But lacking feeling and capable of detaching at a moment's notice, if he feels threatened. He's not ready for the investment level that you're at. Patience might or might not get him to a reasonable level but there's a good possibility he won't ever get to the level of emotional investment that you're at so be prepared if you want to continue with him. And dropping everything at a moment's notice to see him is the biggest mistake you can make towards any NT, type or gender. Live your life which includes keeping to other plans if they were made prior to his contact.

  4. #24
    Unlimited Dancemoves ® AgentF's Avatar
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    Red Herring: i understand the reason frequency may seem to dilute potency or cheapen the expression...but with an ENFP, it's like a bubbling fountain of love rises up and spills over the surface. it is always there, waiting to be activated: social gatherings, being in love, being with friends, adventures of any kind.

    we are perplexed by someone withdrawing after we've been close, because the nature of our feeling for that person is so pure. how could they not want more of it? i'm not the first person to compare ENFPs to puppy dogs, and it really does feel that way when you love someone. bounding all about them, nuzzling them into action/affection, masterminding whimsical activities for the two of you to enjoy. it's ridiculous, really.

    maybe that unicorn vomiting rainbows for the world to enjoy, is actually an ENFP.
    I may be kindly, I am ordinarily gentle, but in my line of business I am obliged to will terribly what I will at all.
    ~ Catherine the Great


    7w6 ❣ sx/so ❤ physical touch ❥ sanguine 70%, choleric 30% ❦

    Johari.

  5. #25
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    I dont see Ps just dropping people that easy. This is different dropping then going off to do something in the manner that ExFPs seem to do. Ps dont really "drop" people we arent that uptight. We arent one to really initiate, but thats different then dropping someone. With me its more that I dont want to force myself on someone.

  6. #26
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by agentfurrina View Post
    -
    Instead of dancing around the issue by hurting his feelings with rejection, why not just discuss it with him that both of you have lives and that it's courteous to give extra lead time. Also ask him if he would be happy and consider it fair if you cancelled plans with other people, in order to be with him at a moment's notice. His responses to these questions will shed some light into his character.
    Last edited by Patches; 08-16-2012 at 03:32 AM.

  7. #27
    Superwoman Red Herring's Avatar
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    ^ this. Also, friends are well intentioned, they love you and only want the best for you, but they tend to give poor relationship advice, especially at the early stage, when they only have your venting to go on. You should be able to sort this out like adults.
    The good life is one inspired by love and guided by knowledge. Neither love without knowledge, nor knowledge without love can produce a good life. - Bertrand Russell
    A herring's blog
    Johari / Nohari

  8. #28
    Unlimited Dancemoves ® AgentF's Avatar
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    yes. excellent point. he actually tried bringing this up one time when i let him know i could do something with him, "but it will require some juggling."

    he was quick to point out that i needn't juggle or inconvenience myself, and that another mutually-agreeable option existed, but that he was just throwing it out there in case i was interested. so he seemed courteous and respectful when i hinted that some effort on my part would be involved to accommodate him...
    I may be kindly, I am ordinarily gentle, but in my line of business I am obliged to will terribly what I will at all.
    ~ Catherine the Great


    7w6 ❣ sx/so ❤ physical touch ❥ sanguine 70%, choleric 30% ❦

    Johari.

  9. #29
    Unlimited Dancemoves ® AgentF's Avatar
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    Salomé: you raise a good point about the tension between claiming to accept him how he is (which is really a Sad-inducing compromise which i understand poorly) and the hurting-like-hellness. i think if i can survive the Road To Commitment without guilting/getting hurt/pressuring him, there may be hope. but i don't see how i can do this without communicating to him that i'm stretching myself.

    and it seems that INT's run for the hills if they sense expectations. which seems highly likely over the course of that conversation...regardless of what i say/don't say. he will sense an expectation, and possibly bolt. in that case, i suppose "rejection is protection."
    I may be kindly, I am ordinarily gentle, but in my line of business I am obliged to will terribly what I will at all.
    ~ Catherine the Great


    7w6 ❣ sx/so ❤ physical touch ❥ sanguine 70%, choleric 30% ❦

    Johari.

  10. #30
    ReflecTcelfeR
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    The ambiguity of his feelings might not be because he is confused necessarily, because he has stated that he knows his feelings are in the gray area, right?, but because he isn't sure about the strength of your emotions. If he is confused then perhaps you need to tell him, or perhaps show some of the conviction that you feel. With your certainty he may be able to relax a little and open up. It also moves the relationship forward.

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