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  1. #11
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    Assumptive. Appearance of doesn't equal actual. Work with Ni for awhile and you'd eat your post.
    Yeah...I believe most people are really surprised whenever we openly show our interior intellectual world. ENTJs are really extraverted, so it's not easy for us to quickly share our Ni elaborations, since Ni can be probably considered the most "obscure" function in many ways.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  2. #12
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Yeah...I believe most people are really surprised whenever we openly show our interior intellectual world. ENTJs are really extraverted, so it's not easy for us to quickly share our Ni elaborations, since Ni can be probably considered the most "obscure" function in many ways.
    It's impossible to describe beyond random flashes of insight. And this might be why it's impossible to elaborate. Take a look at Ti-Ne or Ne-Ti. It takes a detailed approach, each link hooking into another. Te-Ni takes a top down approach where it's overview and then flashes of insight with potential of some extreme detail but in random order.

  3. #13
    Probably Most Brilliant Craft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    Assumptive. Appearance of doesn't equal actual. Work with Ni for awhile and you'd eat your post.
    *eats post* yum.

    Te doms primarily focus on external objective organization. Heightened preference for "action" requires extensive use of Se. Ergo, less use of Ni. Concordantly, less actual Ni vis a vis more actual Se.



    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    It's impossible to describe beyond random flashes of insight.
    It's impossible to describe because you think it's impossible to describe. Ni is perception-ideation. A rear view vis a vis front view.

  4. #14
    No Cigar Litvyak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by haag261390 View Post
    Is it natural for you to use abstract thoughts and communication and get it in the sudden? What if an ENTJ and an ENTP that I know rarely have any abstract thoughts then does that mean they're not intuitives? But I know this one ENTJ thinks past that 'surface' and is a deep thinker. I need some answers to this, thank you.
    We (I) have to tone it down occasionally in favor of being efficient in our (my) communication. I've also noticed that 1) it's not an easy task, abstract thoughts come first, and self-regulation can't always keep up with it, 2) simpler speak comes with simpler mindset and less creativity in the long run. But the goal of communication is to understand and to be understood, and that's my primary concern.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    It's impossible to describe beyond random flashes of insight. And this might be why it's impossible to elaborate. Take a look at Ti-Ne or Ne-Ti. It takes a detailed approach, each link hooking into another. Te-Ni takes a top down approach where it's overview and then flashes of insight with potential of some extreme detail but in random order.
    Interesting . . .
    I have constantly been taking in my environment and asking why as far back as I can remember. This leads to constant flashes of insight in understanding seeming random connections between any two points in the kosmos. As children we often come in after an hour of investigation outside and want to share this with our family members who often ask us startlingly strange questions like, "Do you really think ANYONE truly cares about this crap?" So we realize very young that the knowledge of audience is important and temper our conversation or ignore people we think of as ridiculous. This is why we VALUE our extremely intuitive friends who "get it." It seems rather silly to argue who is more intuitive than the other.

  6. #16
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craft View Post
    *eats post* yum.

    Te doms primarily focus on external objective organization. Heightened preference for "action" requires extensive use of Se. Ergo, less use of Ni. Concordantly, less actual Ni vis a vis more actual Se.
    Internetz would be "nom, nom"!

    Te dom doesn't always dom. That's assuming that in every situation our dominant process is the first and strongest to manifest. This I can't agree with.
    It's impossible to describe because you think it's impossible to describe. Ni is perception-ideation. A rear view vis a vis front view.
    I challenge you to describe your subconscious (love to replace this word with unconscious but people don't ever get the wordplay, thinking it's a mistake) thought processes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Windigo View Post
    Interesting . . .
    I have constantly been taking in my environment and asking why as far back as I can remember. This leads to constant flashes of insight in understanding seeming random connections between any two points in the kosmos. As children we often come in after an hour of investigation outside and want to share this with our family members who often ask us startlingly strange questions like, "Do you really think ANYONE truly cares about this crap?" So we realize very young that the knowledge of audience is important and temper our conversation or ignore people we think of as ridiculous. This is why we VALUE our extremely intuitive friends who "get it." It seems rather silly to argue who is more intuitive than the other.
    No kidding. As a kid it was so difficult for people to understand what I was trying to communicate to them since it would come out gobbledy-gook very similar to the way that Redbone describes of starting in the middle, working backwards and forwards, random points of entry. When Se finally manifested and Te matured, it was a total relief!

  7. #17
    Senior Member MoneyTick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by haag261390 View Post
    Is it natural for you to use abstract thoughts and communication and get it in the sudden? What if an ENTJ and an ENTP that I know rarely have any abstract thoughts then does that mean they're not intuitives? But I know this one ENTJ thinks past that 'surface' and is a deep thinker. I need some answers to this, thank you.
    It really depends on the context of the conversation.

    If it's small-talk, then no.

    If it's a discussion that requires abstract input, then yes.

    Simple.
    got chaos?

  8. #18
    Probably Most Brilliant Craft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Windigo View Post
    It seems rather silly to argue who is more intuitive than the other.
    It's as silly as pigeonholing people. "Who is more F? T or F?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    Internetz would be "nom, nom"!
    ENTJ?? Internet?? o.O

    Te dom doesn't always dom. That's assuming that in every situation our dominant process is the first and strongest to manifest. This I can't agree with.
    Yes, not always but generally.

    I challenge you to describe your subconscious (love to replace this word with unconscious but people don't ever get the wordplay, thinking it's a mistake) thought processes.
    My functions are not the only thing in my subconscious, a lot of interplays and wacky stuff are going on. But really, "function" is language to describe the undefined activity. Ergo, the problem here is not understanding "thought process" but understanding the "function" itself. Concordantly, Ni can be defined in one sentence: "Ni is seeing information by shifting perspectives."

  9. #19
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craft View Post
    Yes, not always but generally.
    It's also dependent on whether individuals learn to rein in or balance Te with other cognitive processes. It's not always going to be organise to action where Te and Se get to play. Ni manifests and in some ENTJs, quite strongly where the dom is eclipsed through a lack of trusting its abilities. A form of double-checking.
    My functions are not the only thing in my subconscious, a lot of interplays and wacky stuff are going on. But really, "function" is language to describe the undefined activity. Ergo, the problem here is not understanding "thought process" but understanding the "function" itself. Concordantly, Ni can be defined in one sentence: "Ni is seeing information by shifting perspectives."
    Taking all nuances of the bolded into consideration, that was nicely consolidated. Hats off to you. I couldn't have done that.

  10. #20
    figsfiggyfigs
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    I haven't read all the posts, I don't have the time to do so at the moment.

    Considering being abstract, and communicating that abstract though to others.
    Maybe its because I"m in a foreign country atm and poeple barely understand proper English... but
    while remaining relative to concept at hand; but even then they have no idea what I'm trying to say half the time...

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