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  1. #11
    Emerging Tallulah's Avatar
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    What Jennifer said.

    But also, for me, i think of Ti like a computer program that is always scanning data for flaws, looking around, gathering more data, and more scanning, as a refining process. It's just constant scrutiny, in the absence of personal values (unless they're important to that situation).
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  2. #12
    Rainy Day Woman MDP2525's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daftpunkcrunk View Post
    Hey guys, I was curious to know how xxTP minds work when using the introverted thinking function. If an introverted feeler user wanted to develop his or her Ti, what exercises can he or she do to strengthen the function? Activities such as crosswords, rubik cubes, geometry, etc...
    I love crossword puzzles. Do one a day. I don't know if that has anything to do with Ti though.

    And also, I've been curious on how Fi and Ti differ from each other. I tend to always be in doubt of what people say. It's hard for me to apply judgement to a person's view because I think that there's an off chance that the person might be right. For example, if someone was to claim that magnesium helped alleviate muscle pain, I wouldn't know whether to dismiss it as right or wrong since I am unknowledgable in the subject.
    If I was you in the example you just gave I would store that bit of information but wouldn't necessarily believe it or disbelieve it (or felt I had to) unless I had 1) first hand experience telling me the same or differing info 2) I knew a fact that disproved or proved that statement wrong or right. Let's say, I got injured and my doctor gave me magnesium pills or I knew for a fact that magnesium enhanced sensitivity to pain neurons. LOL...you get the picture. Until there is experience or factual knowledge it's just neutral information. Information is always neutral until you can utilize it. I might vet the information myself if I'm curious about the truth or origin of it.



    I've read that Ti users tend to gravitate towards their own logical reasoning. When making decisions, do you tend to weigh out the pros and cons of the situation? And if you do, wouldn't that be considered using Te since it's an outward expression of thinking in a tangible, written form (charts, graphs, lists, pros and cons etc)? And also, as a Ti user, have you or do you get the conception that society is 'fake'? If so, what is your definition of 'fake' and how does it qualify?
    Yeah. I do. Unless someone can prove otherwise or has more experience than myself I'll listen to them. I weigh pros and cons when I'm really, really struggling with a major decision. I think this is beyond type. It's human nature! Yeah. Society is fake. It has to be otherwise we would all hate each other and chaos would ensue. So I don't mind it. It's par the course.

    I'm not sure what the purpose of enhancing Ti in yourself is because Ti never works alone. It's the filter not the source. Sort of like your liver when you drink too much
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  3. #13
    Emerging Tallulah's Avatar
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    It seems like I'm always weighing new information about what I know, and if I don't know anything about it, I kind of scrutinize it to see if it seems right, if it's logical, if there are any reasons why it wouldn't be the case. I scan myself to see if there are any factors that might be clouding my judgment, anything I'm not seeing, anything emotion might be blinding me to. Ti doesn't like to just accept things. Of course, there are things that are emotional matters, and there are things that don't need a high level of scrutiny.

    Yeah, I don't really think solving puzzles has anything to do with Ti. I'm great at crossword puzzles, but that's just a combination of a knowledge of useless stuff and knowing how to do them right (fill in all the answers you know first and don't guess at stuff you don't until you have some letters. My mom cannot grasp this concept.) :-P

    From what I'm gathering in the Fi threads, it seems Fi is also a function that detects inaccuracies, but it seems to do it on a more personal level. Ti doms tend to filter out emotions as data, because it's not as reliable for us.
    Something Witty

  4. #14
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riva View Post
    Ti is a pain in the ass believe me. It makes you want to analyze, scrutinize and categorize every ounce of information which crosses your mind, what you see or what you hear.

    Pain in the ass.

    It gives the impression that you think too much. xxTPs don't think too much at all. (Especially in IxTP's) Ti makes one wants to put every thing in order in it's head.

    urghh!
    Well, if something doesn't make sense and is thus Unreal, then it's a waste of time. The goal is to make sure everything fits together and isn't a waste.

    This is good when it comes to process refinement, strategy, etc... this is why it's a good idea to have someone with strong Ti preference on every project/team endeavor, to keep things from veering into the badlands... but it makes it hard when trying to grapple with personal preference ("What do I like?" or "What do I want to do with my life?"). Often the efficient/rational answer does not adequately address the ambiguous, emotional/personal needs of the individual. Life is about more than just assessing and providing rational response, there seems to be an irrational (and by that I mean something that exists in a "black box," we can't quite get at it to define it clearly) center to every human being driving their needs and wants. This is probably why we see those forums with lots of whiny teen INTPs who can't figure out the reason for their existence. The Fi perspective is much better at addressing those sorts of things.

    ...not ignoring other posts, I'll have to respond later.
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  5. #15
    Superwoman Red Herring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by guesswho View Post
    It's all about finding the rational truth, governed by laws and that makes perfect sense. See... I get very pissed off when people say things that don't make any sense.
    For instance, a friend started talking to me about signs. As in, you have a dream and consider it a sign that something will happen in the future, etc. Pure bullshit.
    He is Fe dominant. He also talks about spirits, God, and other things that piss me off. Not doing specific things in a specific day, because God forbids them also ...bullshit.
    Things must make 100% sense, not 50%, not 70%, you need to know exactly how and what.
    I also observed that NTPs doubt things, it may be Ti related I do not know for sure.

    For instance, you have a concept. Seemed bulletproof. But you doubt it, you deconstruct it, and reconstruct it, to see if you end up where you started from.
    Ti is all about wondering about all sorts of crap, why is this that why is that that, why does this fit here and not there, it's also about patterns and logic.
    I don't know if the pattern seeking thing is 100% Ti, or it's because of the NT combination, but it is present.

    You seek patterns in people, wonder why they do the things they do, try to see the cycle of things. To make some mental order of the apparent chaos that you see outside.

    Ti users often leave the impression that they think too much...I've heard that a lot. But you can't help it...why should you be satisfied with partial stuff, instead of knowing the whole?????

    I actually like the Ti functon, but, I'm not Ti dominant so...

    Anyway, this is Ti, I haven't talked about Fi, because I don't wanna talk crap. I know much more about Ti than Fi.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Also CBT is pretty much like Ti.
    However by developing Ti, you won't get rid of your issues.
    INTPs also get depressed etc, and they're Ti dom. You should confront your stuff in your own NATURAL way . : )
    1. Sounds like a cool description. I heard that it is actually easier to describe your auxiliary function than to describe the dominant one - which is also true for my Ne.

    2. I don´t think you need Ti for CBT. It might help, but as guesswho said, Ti doms also have issues and I know of at least two Ti doms in cognitive therapy (both dealing with Fe related issues). It´s no panacea. If you want to step away from Fi and try a more T approach, the natural thing to do would beusing more Te, which should come more natural to you if you´re Fi/Te. Come to think about it, if your Fi already detected where the problems lie (and/or somebody helped you find them), the next step would be implementing that insight by consciously steering your behavior in the desired direction and/or directing your trail of thoughts in an effective way. Sounds pretty Te to me.
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  6. #16
    Senior Member guesswho's Avatar
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    The thing with therapies, is that they were developed by different people, and they reflect their own personality in their therapy style.
    Cognitive behavioral therapy is all T.
    Distorted thought- Behavior- Beliefs- Issues ( depression, anxiety) Very little about how you actually feel.
    CBT is about the distorted thought who generates a chain reaction in your mind. Change the thought, change the behavior, change the beliefs, resulting in less depression/anxiety.

    It's kinda the best therapy for depression and anxiety mostly.
    It's 70%help -30%bullshit.

    CBT is 30% bullshit, other therapy styles contain even more bullshit.
    Therapy has certain limits, that's when the bullshit comes along to fill in.

  7. #17

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    Thank you all for your replies. I agree a lot with what you guys said.

    I've been reading an extensive study on the MBTI shadow functions and supposedly Ti is my 7th function and is expressed in times of stress when my natural functions cannot deal with an issue. I've been hoping that maybe I was an ENTP because I was almost afraid of having to deal with Fi, especially as a auxiliary function, and so I've been trying to develop Ti. I don't know how much childhood trauma can affect personality but for now I'm going to assume that I use Fi as a natural function and will continue to develop that function, as well as using Ti to get another perspective if needed.

    Anyways, thanks again for your replies. I would still really appreciate if you guys would continue talk about how Ti is used by you. I find it really interesting to compare and contrast it to my Fi.

  8. #18
    Emerging Tallulah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by guesswho View Post
    The thing with therapies, is that they were developed by different people, and they reflect their own personality in their therapy style.
    Cognitive behavioral therapy is all T.
    Distorted thought- Behavior- Beliefs- Issues ( depression, anxiety) Very little about how you actually feel.
    CBT is about the distorted thought who generates a chain reaction in your mind. Change the thought, change the behavior, change the beliefs, resulting in less depression/anxiety.

    It's kinda the best therapy for depression and anxiety mostly.
    It's 70%help -30%bullshit.

    CBT is 30% bullshit, other therapy styles contain even more bullshit.
    Therapy has certain limits, that's when the bullshit comes along to fill in.
    Maybe somewhat surprisingly, CBT only goes so far with me. When I get to the point where I need therapy, and it's happened several times in my life, I need someone to help me get OUT of my head. I want someone to talk to me about where my thinking's gone wrong and screwed up my life, but talking about it coldly and clinically makes me feel like a project rather than a person, and I can always counter the stuff they tell me to do, anyway. I kind of prefer a therapist to be able to help me examine my emotions, because when I get to a therapy-needing point, that's probably what I need to do. I've probably got years' worth of ignored emotions down there I haven't processed that are probably gumming up the works. :-P
    Something Witty

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallulah View Post
    Maybe somewhat surprisingly, CBT only goes so far with me. When I get to the point where I need therapy, and it's happened several times in my life, I need someone to help me get OUT of my head. I want someone to talk to me about where my thinking's gone wrong and screwed up my life, but talking about it coldly and clinically makes me feel like a project rather than a person, and I can always counter the stuff they tell me to do, anyway. I kind of prefer a therapist to be able to help me examine my emotions, because when I get to a therapy-needing point, that's probably what I need to do. I've probably got years' worth of ignored emotions down there I haven't processed that are probably gumming up the works. :-P
    Maybe this because you are a T-dominant. F-dom/aux users have a great awareness of their moods and emotions due to introspection and because they are energized by experiencing emotions. CBT is optimal for F-users since it teaches you to utilize thinking rather than emotion.

    But then again, I can't completely categorize CBT being useful only for F-users. In fact, I think it can be equally beneficial for T-users. My brother who is an INTJ, seems to benefit from therapy but he differs from me because he mainly enjoys his sessions because someone is there to listen to him and validate or offer another perspective on his thinking. I suppose this depends on the personality of your therapist, since F-users at times need someone to be critical and imposing on a differing perspective who knows what they're talking about and T-users would rather prefer acknowledgement from someone who is preferably a F-user.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by guesswho
    CBT is 30% bullshit, other therapy styles contain even more bullshit.
    Therapy has certain limits, that's when the bullshit comes along to fill in.
    I think all lifeframe belief sets are that way (whether we're talking religion, or psychology, or whatever.) And at best, they are just facets or windows -- isolated and focused views of a complex entity (life) in order to be able to dig more deeply in that isolated/narrower framework. They are viewpoints. But because of that, they don't encompass all truth, just part of it -- like a facet of the gem is a truthful part of the gem, but it does not represent the whole gem, and you need to see all the facets to get a real sense of the true makeup and reality of the gem.

    Therapy typically is determined based on what the patient is dealing is with and the personality style of the patient.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tallulah View Post
    Maybe somewhat surprisingly, CBT only goes so far with me. When I get to the point where I need therapy, and it's happened several times in my life, I need someone to help me get OUT of my head. I want someone to talk to me about where my thinking's gone wrong and screwed up my life, but talking about it coldly and clinically makes me feel like a project rather than a person, and I can always counter the stuff they tell me to do, anyway. I kind of prefer a therapist to be able to help me examine my emotions, because when I get to a therapy-needing point, that's probably what I need to do. I've probably got years' worth of ignored emotions down there I haven't processed that are probably gumming up the works. :-P
    Same here.

    I need some level of warmth. I think I get the "cold clinical view" naturally, inside my own head, so replicating it with a professional tends to not help me. I think we go to therapy to get something we're not naturally getting on our own. Otherwise they're just already speaking to the choir, it's a waste of time and money to hear and experience something you're already getting.

    I avoided therapy for years for that reason, I thought it would just entail someone telling me what to do or giving me advice I had already figured out long ago on my own. When I finally did go, it turns out the best therapist I had was the one who just gave me a safe environment where I felt like I no longer had to edit/screen out all of my natural responses. I could basically just "exist" and not worry about offending anyone. That was what I was missing: A window of time in just to live instinctively and be myself, and in the process, feel good about who I was and learn to accept myself as-is, without shame.

    Quote Originally Posted by daftpunkcrunk
    Maybe this because you are a T-dominant. F-dom/aux users have a great awareness of their moods and emotions due to introspection and because they are energized by experiencing emotions. CBT is optimal for F-users since it teaches you to utilize thinking rather than emotion.

    But then again, I can't completely categorize CBT being useful only for F-users. In fact, I think it can be equally beneficial for T-users. My brother who is an INTJ, seems to benefit from therapy but he differs from me because he mainly enjoys his sessions because someone is there to listen to him and validate or offer another perspective on his thinking. I suppose this depends on the personality of your therapist, since F-users at times need someone to be critical and imposing on a differing perspective who knows what they're talking about and T-users would rather prefer acknowledgement from someone who is preferably a F-user.
    yeah, I think that kind of fits in with what I said above -- that we go to therapy to get whatever it is we can't get on our own. It's partly type driven, but also environmentally driven.

    it seems that the more well-rounded we get, the more we're also capable of providing that functionality for ourselves. People develop strategies to engage the missing parts, where they can.

    [quoet]I've been reading an extensive study on the MBTI shadow functions and supposedly Ti is my 7th function and is expressed in times of stress when my natural functions cannot deal with an issue. [/quote]

    Supposedly, yes; but shadow theory is highly speculative. If it gives you a focal point on yourself that you have found useful, then that is good... but individual reality is more important than theory reality here. Lots of people don't feel like they fit into those theoretical expectations.

    I've been hoping that maybe I was an ENTP because I was almost afraid of having to deal with Fi, especially as a auxiliary function, and so I've been trying to develop Ti. I don't know how much childhood trauma can affect personality but for now I'm going to assume that I use Fi as a natural function and will continue to develop that function, as well as using Ti to get another perspective if needed.
    Why don't you just drop MBTI theory for awhile?
    What is your primary need (not in terms of function)?
    Now, how can you address/meet that need in some way?
    I think function theory can be very restrictive sometimes.
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