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[Fe] Fe use in INTPs?

sleepy

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How do Fe usage in INTPs manifest?

Do INTPs use Fe on a regular basis?

I'm mostly thinking about the belonging to a group aspect, and speak(validly or not) for the whole group.
 

auriel

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As a whole, not often, but depending on how much pressure an INTP feels to "fit in" (ie., how strong their fear of being perceived as being weird and different is) the more they will use it. Fe is by definition conformist because it puts emphasis on group values and helps keep a bit of that N weirdness at bay. XD

Obviously everyone is an individual and you can't speak for a group, but on average people tend not to like to use their inferior much. It drains a lot of energy after all, and we tend not to be proficient at it. Some types seem to be more loath to do it than others, however, and INTP's seem (in my experience) to be one of them. Most of them take an intensely logical approach to things and more immature one's see values based decision making as inherently inferior. INTP's why attempt to silence their F completely may force their subconscious to use a strange coping mechanism where Fe forcing itself to the top by masquerading as "logic". Usually this manifests itself negatively, because it is a reaction to an unhealthy situation (you see T-doms do this when they make an obviously illogical argument to justify a petty, personal vendetta). It's never a good idea to suppress the inferior.

Short answer: no, not generally, but I don't believe it's ever a good idea to speak for a group as large as an MB type. We all develop very differently.
 

Tallulah

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It depends a lot on upbringing and life experience. The combination of those two things for me meant that I ended up with high Fe for an INTP. My mom is super Fe aware, so she would always point out how my actions or words affected others, and she made me attuned to the hospitality end of things. I think feeling kind of socially clueless as a kid and teen made me study group dynamics and learn to fine-tune my senses to be aware of what was expected. The last thing I wanted was to be a socially inept nerd--which still pains me to see in other INTPs.

For me, it manifests in wanting group harmony and compromise. I like for people to think before they say something that might hurt others' feelings. I like for them to think about how their actions or words affect others. I don't have a lot of natural patience for people acting first, seeing the negative social consequences, and then apologizing later. I take people's feelings into account in real life--probably more than most of my other friends do--but I don't like indulging people's private emotions and preferences if they haven't considered that they might need to also compromise for the good of the group overall. I don't mind being questioned if the person questioning is respectful in their approach. I don't know how much of this is Fe. :p
 

Such Irony

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What Tallulah said perfectly sums up my usage of Fe.
 

Craft

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Here's what I think:

3 modes + 1 Constant(sort of):

3 modes:

1. Ignored Fe. (e.g. direct, brash, stoic, apathetic) (-_-)
2. Clumsy Fe. (e.g. "murmur humor", awkward, unrelaxed) (^_^)"
3. Normal Fe. :)

Constant(sort of):

1. Face

"Do INTPs use Fe on a regular basis?"

With an inferior Fe? I suspect most of INTP's at most time will be on mode #1.

Depending on growth, INTP will be more of one of three modes.


Why constant(sort of) Face? Well "mandate of T" means stern faced.
 

INTP

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i dont really use Fe to fit into a group. i dont like to fake myself so that anyone would like me, if some group doesent like me as i am, i simply dont belong to that group and thats totally fine with me. i do tend to not reveal some parts of myself to a group at first if the group can offer stimulation for my other parts.

Fe to me is more about caring for others and helping them, usually helping them with my Ti Ne(since thats what i do best), and Fe serves more as a reason to help, not helping with Fe. i might do little things like for example(first little thing that came to my head) my friend made food and left it to kitchen for a while because it was too hot to eat yet and went to his room, i was in kitchen for few mins doing something and when i left i mixed his food so that it would get colder faster. also since my friend is retard on spicing food, i helped him to put spices in it. also when he had severe mental issues(schizophrenic ocd) i was there for him and helped him to get over it as much as i could. i found it really rewarding when i managed to help him go over a line on a floor, when earlier he always got stuck on them, sometimes even for like 5 minutes.

people with good Fe say that it helps them to read peoples emotions well, personally i cant rely on what Fe says to me about this. i think Fe helps me to see them, but i dont feel like i can rely on it in weird way, it feels more like a suggestion that it might be like this and i start to think it over with Ti Ne Si. but if its someone i know well, then i might be able to trust this Fe hunch because i got Si Ne to help me with it.

jung wrote about empathetic thinking versus abstract thinking. empathetic thinking is defined as unconscious perception of what other is feeling and generating kind of simulation(mental frame) that the empathetic person is putting himself into, thus consciously feeling what the other is feeling. smells like Fi here. abstract thinking is unconsciously feeling what the other is feeling and trying to consciously find ways to help the other person. abstract thinking is what generates sympathy and thats linked more to Fe.

i use the abstract type of thinking, but im able to consciously create this mental frame of what other person is feeling by using Ti and feeling it myself, creating kind of false empathy. or dunno if it can be called false empathy, but its not generated empathetic thinking, but still does the same job on creating empathy. i get quite high score on Fi, but i think its really just my high Ti working together with my Fe. i dunno how much of it is actual Fe, but tests say that my Fe is pretty much unused, but Fi is in good use, i have started to doubt that its Fi that im using that much.
 
R

ReflecTcelfeR

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I enjoy how INTP put it. It's not that Fe is used to help people, but a motive towards helping someone. That way it can be used healthily(?) and effectively, also giving us a reason to use our main functions, the only drawback is realizing when Fe is giving you a proper motive.
 

Craft

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I don't think Inferior Fe is necessarily the "moral compass". It could be for some people, but I'm thinking Ti can lead to the similar conclusions regarding values of morality. I.e. "This is what's objectively right." I think Fe is more of a "utility function". A way of manipulation others in order to obtain something. Fe is Ti's tool in people-relationships.
 

Lucas

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My Fe tends to come out more as an appreciation of tact. It recognizes the demand that certain information must be imparted, but nevertheless insists that there is a blunt and hurtful way to go about it, and a more considerate way. So it serves as a kind of damage control for Ti. The whole "fitting into the group" or "maintaining harmony" is not so much the reason behind as a recognition that I do have to maintain at least cordial relations with people, and this is one of the best ways to do it. It can be annoying, as I really dislike asking people do things, even if I know they are would be perfectly willing.
 
R

ReflecTcelfeR

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A way of manipulation others in order to obtain something. Fe is Ti's tool in people-relationships.

That may come off to some as unbalanced though. Howeva, as an inferior this is probably the most common usage of it.
 

Craft

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Not necessarily. As a matter of Fact, Fe's primary function is manipulation.
 
R

ReflecTcelfeR

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Conformity to a whole in order to improve the whole, the inferiority of that function leads to the selfishness that can be perceived in getting what you want.
 

Craft

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Conformity to a whole in order to improve the whole, the inferiority of that function leads to the selfishness that can be perceived in getting what you want.

Your saying Inferior Fe makes way for selfishness? How is inferior Fe related to selfishness?
 

sleepy

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This is very interesting. Will have to think some more about this.

The reason I ask, was that I was put under a lot of stress awhile back by a few(in power). And how I reacted was to reach out to the masses through Fe and indirectly show how much I appreciated them(the people) and make a plea for help.

What triggered this was collaborated Fe manipulation going over a few years to make the people turn away. To isolate for vulnerability, dislike, due to arbitrary reasons. But that failed, mostly.

---
What surprised me, was my reaction through Fe when this thing finally got real. Even if it was fully genuine. And was not turned away. It made me feel real uncomfortable for days actually, to have tapped into this. Almost sick.

That's why I'm wondering how people who claim to be NTs, can use this function comfortably as a manipulative tool, for selfish reasons? I see the effectiveness. But how can they stand it?

This sort of emotional control comes off as Fe primarily to me, or Fe support. Or am I mistaken? I'm talking about everyday comfortable use. Can one develop an inferior function to this degree?
 

Andy

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Fe governs the urge to respond to what is seen as socially necessary. The weak Fe seen in ITPs tends to be a bit erratic. It can be seen in many ways.

1: Avoidant behaviour, not wanting to hear about or get involved in other peoples problems.
2: Over reacting to social blunders with excessive appologies or similar.
3: Unwarrented aggression and a tendancy to find insults where none were intended.
4: Excess competitiveness or even a refusel to compete at all.
5: Avoiding social commitments.

...and so on and so forth.
 

INTP

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Fe governs the urge to respond to what is seen as socially necessary. The weak Fe seen in ITPs tends to be a bit erratic. It can be seen in many ways.

1: Avoidant behaviour, not wanting to hear about or get involved in other peoples problems.
2: Over reacting to social blunders with excessive appologies or similar.
3: Unwarrented aggression and a tendancy to find insults where none were intended.
4: Excess competitiveness or even a refusel to compete at all.
5: Avoiding social commitments.

...and so on and so forth.

nice analyze from someone with no idea :laugh:

this isnt math you see, you cant just take all the strong stuff away and leave the weak ones, even tho the function itself might be weak or what you did with some of those was to turn the strong points upside down..

imo what those things should be:

1: avoiding of revealing self to the group easily. not wanting other people to get involved with personal problems
2: over reacting to other peoples overly strong emotions(even when the emotion isnt "justified"), when those emotions are something important to intp(or if the intp is afraid of the other person showing this particular emotion in this particular situation)
3: being overly aggressive/insulting when the other person goes way too much over the limits on something thats hurting the intp. acting out aggressive(not attacking him, but more like acting like you are going to get your ass kicked) insult strangers who go way over the limits
4: i dont get how this has anything related to Fe, but i think intps tend to do this. i bet this has more to do with shadow Te
5: again nothing related to Fe, but intps do tend to avoid all kinds of commitments unless they are really sure about them
 

Andy

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nice analyze from someone with no idea :laugh:

this isnt math you see, you cant just take all the strong stuff away and leave the weak ones, even tho the function itself might be weak or what you did with some of those was to turn the strong points upside down..

imo what those things should be:

1: avoiding of revealing self to the group easily. not wanting other people to get involved with personal problems
2: over reacting to other peoples overly strong emotions(even when the emotion isnt "justified"), when those emotions are something important to intp(or if the intp is afraid of the other person showing this particular emotion in this particular situation)
3: being overly aggressive/insulting when the other person goes way too much over the limits on something thats hurting the intp. acting out aggressive(not attacking him, but more like acting like you are going to get your ass kicked) insult strangers who go way over the limits
4: i dont get how this has anything related to Fe, but i think intps tend to do this. i bet this has more to do with shadow Te
5: again nothing related to Fe, but intps do tend to avoid all kinds of commitments unless they are really sure about them

4 is to do with perception of social position and the possible loss of face/standing if beaten or the gains to be made when victorious. 5 is indeed componded by a need to be really sure over such things. In terms of functions, that is often a result of the INTPs Si (needing certainty) and Fe working together.

As I said, there are many ways inferior Fe can play out. The variations you listed are quite valid, just as the ones I listed were. It can even be a nice function, once the ITP gets a handle on it. That's true of most inferiors, of course.
 

KDude

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I identify with the basic gist of both of your examples (and I do have an idea. I think I'm closer to the right type now. That or INTP. It wasn't Fi at all). One funny thing is how "respecting" the Fe side in myself shows up is when I'm just acutely aware of consequences.. Say, for example, somewhere like here. I enjoy bullshitting around here, so I don't really want to sabotage myself. Sometimes I speak my mind, and sometimes it may take me an hour just to phrase something. It's as if I have that monkey from Family Guy on my back, telling me not to go certain places. I used to give less of a shit.
 

INTP

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4 is to do with perception of social position and the possible loss of face/standing if beaten or the gains to be made when victorious. 5 is indeed componded by a need to be really sure over such things. In terms of functions, that is often a result of the INTPs Si (needing certainty) and Fe working together.

As I said, there are many ways inferior Fe can play out. The variations you listed are quite valid, just as the ones I listed were. It can even be a nice function, once the ITP gets a handle on it. That's true of most inferiors, of course.

you talk about social position and competitiveness in same thing, this doesent match at all. are you trying to say that intps tend to compete for their social position?

do you have some intp friend that tends to compete with you all the time? i got an intj friend who i tend to compete with about everything and it has nothing to do with Fe, its more like battle of Te vs Ti. it might have characteristics of alpha males battling, but its not really about social position at all, its just a fun activity for my Ti, i couldnt care less about social position since we are all friends. its just fun to own Te you see.

i do tend to compete rarely with my entp friend too, but its more like drunken wrestling(or other physical activity) and i dont care if i win or lose, its all about fun and i dont see it effecting to my social position at all. i dont have this urge to compete with F types.

Fe + competition shouldnt be used in same sentence imo. Fe is about creating harmony and competition is braking harmony and it cant really be used to balance it either, creating harmony comes from good things, competition is the opposite if used as form of manipulating anything.

5 is all about Ne and seeing the possible opportunities that Ne gives(and because of what if there will be a better opportunity). because seeing the possible opportunities, its not the preferred way to make a commitment since that might end up being the wrong decision when/if new opportunities arise. because of these possible opportunities, its hard for Ti to make a decision about commitment and P types tend not to make a decision of any kind if they are not sure about it.

your variations about how Fe manifests in intp seems like classic case of intj not understanding whats going on. my intj friend makes this kind of mistakes all the time, its about Te seeing only the facts, but Ni composing a twisted picture about the whole. it happens because Te doesent look behind the scene, and Ni forms opinion about Te facts and what weak Se tells about what seems to be. i bet empathetic type of thinking of Fi has something to do with this, because it can lead the person to false image, due to too much unconscious assuming.
 

EcK

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