[INTJ] INTJs & Making Appointments?

[Adasta]

I have recently realised that one of my best friends is an INTJ. He's pretty must the posterboy for an INTJ, now that I think about it. Anyway, I have a question for all your INTJs:

Do you find it difficult/undesirable to commit to social appointments several days in advance of the party/meet-up/event etc.?

I ask this because this has been one quality of my friend that has consistently irked me for years! He will never agree to something until the very last minute, sometimes even a day before if it's something informal like a party or a night out with other mates.

Is this a quality of INTJs in general or just my friend? I imagine this personality trait could derive from a need to acquire as much information as possible in order to make an "informed" decision. So, the INTJ would wait until the last possible minute at which s/he must make a choice so that s/he can sift through all of the data in order to decide "What choice would be the most logical and best for me?" This can be frustrating for me (if I am the one organising the event) but also seems to deny any chance of being spontaneous...

Is this an accurate supposition? Can you shine any more light on this trait, if it be a truly INTJ one?

 

[Nicodemus]

Do you find it difficult/undesirable to commit to social appointments several days in advance of the party/meet-up/event etc.?

Yes. I almost always know right off whether or not I am going to attend the respective event, but often the answer would be 'no'; so to avoid a discussion that will not change my position anyway, I remain silent until it is too late for an argument. It is also possible, when the pros and cons of attending balance each other, that I withhold a public decision to see what my mood is like at the time of the event. Another reason may be that I dislike to be part of other people's plans: it restricts my freedom.

 

[InvisibleJim]

Yes, especially if you want to avoid the whole bullshit around 'trying to rearrange it to fit you in'.

 

[IZthe411]

Similar with me.

I know sometimes, I just don't want to commit because something better might come along LOL, and I'd rather give you my answer closer to the date, than say 'yes' now and have to break it later. I feel it's better to say 'no' now and then change it to yes later, for some reason. Either way I know I'll piss somebody off lol.

 

[Adasta]

This pretty much corroborates what I thought

What I tend to do now is, if I ask him about something and he sounds hesitant, I ask what his "provisional" answer is.

For example, if I say "Do you want to go to this gig?" he might um-and-ah about it. If he does this, I say something like "Are you interested in going or are you just not up for it?" This usually elicits a response: either "Yeah, definitely" or "No, I don't think so because...". I can then work from there; if he does want to go, it's obvious that he's just biding his time, or waiting for a response from other people to see if he is more beholden to them for whatever reason (e.g. family events, or going out with his girlfriend).

The problem with this behaviour is that it can make it really difficult for the person arranging things! What I do now is often concoct a slightly false date/time at which he must make a decision, therefore allowing myself a contingency to deal with the fall-out should he not attend. The outcome is usually the same since, as you say, I have a strong feeling that his decision is already made; however, I get the benefit of a bit of time to find others to go instead!

 

[Malcontent]

Similar with me.

I know sometimes, I just don't want to commit because something better might come along LOL, and I'd rather give you my answer closer to the date, than say 'yes' now and have to break it later. I feel it's better to say 'no' now and then change it to yes later, for some reason. Either way I know I'll piss somebody off lol.

I am an NT of some sort.
Some friends of mine have this behaviour too. I HATE it with passion.
If I organize something (a movie, a dinner), I want to know if you are in or out NOW. If you don't like it, you say NO, no problem. If you like it you say YES and if you cannot be present for an hitch or urgent need or something particular, no problem.
But if your habit is to not give me an answer because you wait for something better come along, or you say YES and then you say NO because others friends give you better options, I get very upset, because:
1. you don't mantain the given word and you have no respect, and I value respect a lot.
2. I am not your friend only when you have not better things to do, because being a "dog companion" it's not part of me.
3."Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me" is a good quote. So, if you persist in your behaviour I'll let you know why I'll call you less and less.
4. I have very low patience and I don't like indecisive "last minute" people, because it gets difficult arranging things, as Adasta says above.

 

[IZthe411]

I am an NT of some sort.
Some friends of mine have this behaviour too. I HATE it with passion.
If I organize something (a movie, a dinner), I want to know if you are in or out NOW. If you don't like it, you say NO, no problem. If you like it you say YES and if you cannot be present for an hitch or urgent need or something particular, no problem.
But if your habit is to not give me an answer because you wait for something better come along, or you say YES and then you say NO because others friends give you better options, I get very upset, because:
1. you don't mantain the given word and you have no respect, and I value respect a lot.
2. I am not your friend only when you have not better things to do, because being a "dog companion" it's not part of me.
3."Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me" is a good quote. So, if you persist in your behaviour I'll let you know why I'll call you less and less.
4. I have very low patience and I don't like indecisive "last minute" people, because it gets difficult arranging things, as Adasta says above.

Well If you're a good friend that changes things. In cases of where you're not, and I have a choice, this is when these feelings come into play.

Also, I know that sometimes my current answer reflects my current state. If I'm in one of those 'I don't want to be bothered moods', my judgement points to 'NO'. Recognizing that, I have to remind myself that the event comes at a later date, so chill. Then I'll say yes.

 

[jbking]

Well....

While I can make appointments days in advance, there is something to be said for what is the appointment as some things tend to be a bit higher on my hierarchy of things that I won't pass compared to other things. For example, I have a few Meetup groups that have regular meetings where I know when most of these are and am fine with how that is structured. At the same time, if a friend wanted to just hang out that may be a lot lower on my list than a group discussion on some topic that I enjoy discussing for hours at a time. Don't forget that an INTJ wants to make the decision once and leave it locked in stone and not seem wishy-washy on the event. This is a way to make it unlikely to make a bad choice which if a decision is made too early, it may be not be a good choice. Perfectionists can really be good about not having to decide something until it has to be done which can be seen in a way like a Perceiving trait rather than a Judging trait as I'd think the Judging is to decide early and leave it alone.

 

[Uytuun]

Do you find it difficult/undesirable to commit to social appointments several days in advance of the party/meet-up/event etc.?

I ask this because this has been one quality of my friend that has consistently irked me for years! He will never agree to something until the very last minute, sometimes even a day before if it's something informal like a party or a night out with other mates.

Is this a quality of INTJs in general or just my friend? I imagine this personality trait could derive from a need to acquire as much information as possible in order to make an "informed" decision. So, the INTJ would wait until the last possible minute at which s/he must make a choice so that s/he can sift through all of the data in order to decide "What choice would be the most logical and best for me?" This can be frustrating for me (if I am the one organising the event) but also seems to deny any chance of being spontaneous...

Is this an accurate supposition? Can you shine any more light on this trait, if it be a truly INTJ one?

I don't do this, it seems a little rude to keep people hanging and I'm pretty easy-going when it comes to these things..."logical best" and such doesn't really dominate my life that much. You never know how a night is going to progress...

When I do say no I expect people to respect that and so far I haven't really had that much issues with that approach...sometimes their input changes my mind, sometimes it doesn't...what you describe sounds like a pretty defensive mechanism.

 

[Such Irony]

I have recently realised that one of my best friends is an INTJ. He's pretty must the posterboy for an INTJ, now that I think about it. Anyway, I have a question for all your INTJs:

Do you find it difficult/undesirable to commit to social appointments several days in advance of the party/meet-up/event etc.?

I ask this because this has been one quality of my friend that has consistently irked me for years! He will never agree to something until the very last minute, sometimes even a day before if it's something informal like a party or a night out with other mates.

Is this a quality of INTJs in general or just my friend? I imagine this personality trait could derive from a need to acquire as much information as possible in order to make an "informed" decision. So, the INTJ would wait until the last possible minute at which s/he must make a choice so that s/he can sift through all of the data in order to decide "What choice would be the most logical and best for me?" This can be frustrating for me (if I am the one organising the event) but also seems to deny any chance of being spontaneous...

Is this an accurate supposition? Can you shine any more light on this trait, if it be a truly INTJ one?

It depends on what the activity is and whom its with. I will sometimes engage in this behavior. If its an activity that's only for a limited time like a play in a theatre, I'll generally make plans and stick to it but if its something I could do just about anytime, such as just hanging out with someone, I'm much more prone to put off committing to anything. Often its the case of "How do I know that I'll still be in the mood for that a few days from now?

 

[Oaky]

If I would not intend to go I would make it a clear 'no'.
If I would intend to go I would give a 'perhaps'. I would not allow them to take me as someone who would go for granted for if something more important had appeared I would be able to easily give the 'I cannot go'.

 

[Coriolis]

Do you find it difficult/undesirable to commit to social appointments several days in advance of the party/meet-up/event etc.?

Not at all, in fact, quite the opposite. I agree with Malcontent for the most part. I keep my commitments, and expect others to do the same. I try to keep enough flexibility in my schedule to accommodate things that come up at the last minute, but prefer to have some advance notice, even (sometimes especially) for social events. I will happily commit well in advance to an event I would like to attend. If I have no interest in it, I will say so when asked. If I genuinely can't commit due to a specific uncertainty (might need to go out of town for work), I will explain the constraint and ask to defer the decision. Once I have made a commitment, I will follow through barring illness or other emergency. It is distressing to me that this sort of behavior seems to have become the exception rather than the rule.

 

[Zarathustra]

I don't do this, it seems a little rude to keep people hanging and I'm pretty easy-going when it comes to these things..."logical best" and such doesn't really dominate my life that much. You never know how a night is going to progress...

When I do say no I expect people to respect that and so far I haven't really had that much issues with that approach...sometimes their input changes my mind, sometimes it doesn't...what you describe sounds like a pretty defensive mechanism.

Not at all, in fact, quite the opposite. I agree with Malcontent for the most part. I keep my commitments, and expect others to do the same. I try to keep enough flexibility in my schedule to accommodate things that come up at the last minute, but prefer to have some advance notice, even (sometimes especially) for social events. I will happily commit well in advance to an event I would like to attend. If I have no interest in it, I will say so when asked. If I genuinely can't commit due to a specific uncertainty (might need to go out of town for work), I will explain the constraint and ask to defer the decision. Once I have made a commitment, I will follow through barring illness or other emergency. It is distressing to me that this sort of behavior seems to have become the exception rather than the rule.

You are both girls, right?

It is also possible, when the pros and cons of attending balance each other, that I withhold a public decision to see what my mood is like at the time of the event.

Often its the case of "How do I know that I'll still be in the mood for that a few days from now?

This.

Another reason may be that I dislike to be part of other people's plans: it restricts my freedom.

And this.

The two are actually related.

I like to have the freedom to follow my mood, and if my mood at a later time might say, "fuck no, I don't feel like going to this event I committed to last week anymore," then why would I commit to that event in the first place? That's just rude.

Instead, I give varying levels of response that give an indication of how certain I am I will show up (based on how interested I am in the particular activity and what I expect my mood to potentially be like at the time of the event [based on work schedule, other events, et al]), but which doesn't lock me into anything, or force me to feel that I would break my word if I weren't to come.

And don't expect to get anything else out of me: I'm known for being highly skilled at creating new and loquacious forms of saying "maybe".

If the event is deemed extremely important, however (like a family tradition, wedding of a good friend, or what not), then I will generally commit with no problem.

It all depends on whether I deem the event of enough importance that I should restrict my future freedom to do as I wish at that time.

 

[Adasta]

So, from what I can gather, there is a very definite strata of importance inherent in social activities.

Events which are deemed significant are also deemed worthy of advanced commitment. So events which occur rarely or are otherwise special are the highest priority, either because there is an essence of obligation (e.g. a wedding) or a greater sense of surety that one will have a good time (e.g. visiting a good friend in a nearby city). However, more social plans (e.g. do you want to go to the pub/the cinema/etc. this weekend?) have less importance and are therefore subject to a type of delayed deference, whereby it's no big deal if you make the decision to go on Monday, Wednesday, or Friday.

From what I know/can remember of my friend, once committed to something, he rarely backs out at the last minute. The difficulty is getting him to agree in good time. As I said, the main frustration with this is that the organiser never has a solid idea of the number of people attending the event.

Once I have made a commitment, I will follow through barring illness or other emergency. It is distressing to me that this sort of behavior seems to have become the exception rather than the rule.

I agree (for what it's worth!).

 

[Kalach]

This is the whole 5w4 thing: the outside world is trying to steal my time and energy but my time and energy are needed for my projects and the becoming of my knowledge! This is my essence!

If you want an INTJ to join in some activity, you have to start feeding him information. The more information available, the more ability to choose, the less the commitment counts as a sacrifice.

 

[Adasta]

This is the whole 5w4 thing: the outside world is trying to steal my time and energy but my time and energy are needed for my projects and the becoming of my knowledge! This is my essence!

If you want an INTJ to join in some activity, you have to start feeding him information. The more information available, the more ability to choose, the less the commitment counts as a sacrifice.

Yeah he's also a 5w4. I'm a 4w5, which is probably where we have massive crossovers as friends and as people who enjoy similar topics. However, with philosophy, for example, he cares more for the process of discovering, whereas I care more for the object.

 

[Zarathustra]

This is the whole 5w4 thing: the outside world is trying to steal my time and energy but my time and energy are needed for my projects and the becoming of my knowledge! This is my essence!

Hmmm...

Well, I'm not sure my enneagram, but, thus far, 5w4 has not been strong in the running; I do something similar, based on my desire for freedom (to make the most utility-maximizing choice at the last minute).

If you want an INTJ to join in some activity, you have to start feeding him information. The more information available, the more ability to choose, the less the commitment counts as a sacrifice.

Very much agreed.

So, from what I can gather, there is a very definite strata of importance inherent in social activities.

Events which are deemed significant are also deemed worthy of advanced commitment. So events which occur rarely or are otherwise special are the highest priority, either because there is an essence of obligation (e.g. a wedding) or a greater sense of surety that one will have a good time (e.g. visiting a good friend in a nearby city). However, more social plans (e.g. do you want to go to the pub/the cinema/etc. this weekend?) have less importance and are therefore subject to a type of delayed deference, whereby it's no big deal if you make the decision to go on Monday, Wednesday, or Friday.

Exactly.

From what I know/can remember of my friend, once committed to something, he rarely backs out at the last minute. The difficulty is getting him to agree in good time. As I said, the main frustration with this is that the organiser never has a solid idea of the number of people attending the event.

Yeah, that's just how we (I) roll...

It's kinda: well, take me or leave me...

Obviously, if you leave us, then we really won't care...

(You weren't willing to accept us for who we are...)

 

[Virtual ghost]

Actually I prefer to know it in advance. Also I demand to know exactly where , who , what ....... etc. facts before I make a choice. So if I don't like the event I will kill the chance that I will be there in its root. So if I said I will come I will be there unless something really really important happens: death of a family member , another 9/11 or something like that.
However if people insist and I don't want to come I will pretend that I will come to their "let's hang out togather" while in fact I never had any intention for showing up. I did this a few time in my life but only when I was trully uninterested and thay gave my the offer only a few hours in advance.


Actually many people consider me rude (in my part of the word) since I prefer to have things clear while many people perfer things to be "flexibile".

 

[Adasta]

Actually many people consider me rude (in my part of the word) since I prefer to have things clear while many people perfer things to be "flexibile".

Are you form Southern Europe?

 

[Virtual ghost]

Are you form Southern Europe?

Eastern Europe would be more correct.