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  1. #21
    Senior Member Uytuun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    You are both girls, right?
    I am. I believe I'm 5w4, but no longer feel the need to protect my energyflow as much as I used to as a teenager. It's not as black and white to me anymore, I don't see other people/exterior circumstances as hostile. Or at least significantly less so.

  2. #22
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    If you want an INTJ to join in some activity, you have to start feeding him information. The more information available, the more ability to choose, the less the commitment counts as a sacrifice.
    Yes. I am more of a 5w6, but I agree. If you don't supply the info with the invitation, I will interrogate you for it, or decline to go.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    like to have the freedom to follow my mood, and if my mood at a later time might say, "fuck no, I don't feel like going to this event I committed to last week anymore," then why would I commit to that event in the first place? That's just rude.
    I rarely make any decisions based upon my mood, including whether to attend an event or activity. I should explain, however, that I receive few requests, and attend even fewer events, so this is not a decision that confronts me often. I generally identify what to do on my own, based upon my personal interests or the potential utility, and attend alone or with my SO.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    I rarely make any decisions based upon my mood, including whether to attend an event or activity. I should explain, however, that I receive few requests, and attend even fewer events, so this is not a decision that confronts me often. I generally identify what to do on my own, based upon my personal interests or the potential utility, and attend alone or with my SO.
    Sorry to ask again, but I didn't get an answer last time... (if that was intentional, feel free to ignore again...)

    You are a girl, right...?

  4. #24
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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  5. #25
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Yeah what is it with Js, especially IxxJs, and making too many appointments and schedules in the first place? You don't know when the best or coolest time to do something will be until it almost arrives, or if a better option will arise, until it presents itself.

    *smacks the day planners out of the Js hands, and rolls your asses off this porch*

  6. #26
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    You are a girl, right...?
    Does it matter? Do you think one's perspective on appointments is gender-based, or more type-based? Or perhaps even age or culture based?

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Does it matter?
    Not sure, but I could understand why it might...

    Which is why I asked.

    So far, if you are a girl, it would seem that the girl INTJs don't have the problem stated in the OP, while most of the guy INTJs do...

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Do you think one's perspective on appointments is gender-based, or more type-based? Or perhaps even age or culture based?
    I think all of the above (and more) could have an effect.

    I could see women having more of an issue with not scheduling/breaking their appointments.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Rex's Avatar
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    I don`t mind getting appointments for next week. it makes it possible to plan things better. Its also most likely to be more interesting than the usual alternative so i like to get it set in stone as fast as possible.

    And im always on time.

  9. #29
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    The original author has put forth a speculative thesis--namely, that the INTJ is reluctant to make social commitments too long in advance and that this is connected with his need to make a choice based on the optimal data set reasonably attainable preceding his decision. Analytically, the question of interest is, if the prototypical INTJ is supposed to be this mastermind of a personality with an immaculate system of reasoning and intuitive faculty for grasping contingencies, how can a person so stolid about planning their goals be so indecisive with respect to people? Perhaps the paradox of an INTJ is best illustrated in the personality of the notable economist John Maynard Keynes. As an example, Keynes noted that in the long run we are all dead. But why would a thinker that holds such a view publish a paper in 1930 called 'The Economic Possibilities for Our Grandchildren'? Obviously, Keynes himself was looking with a view to the future and the conclusion one might draw is that while he masterminded a new school of economic thought he was nevertheless a capricious personality. We know, also, that Immanuel Kant who almost never broke his routine for anyone or anything (absent when he first read Emile) would take a long lunch if he was enjoying the conversation. Accordingly, we see with Keynes and Kant that, whether grandchildren or conversation, the common pattern is they were resolute in their areas of expertise but maintained a socially flexible posture in their respective societies. Why is this the case?

    As a first conjecture, as much as economists assign algorithms to human behaviour (such as GDP) and philosophers propound metaphysical theorems, in the final analysis it is impractical to have a teleological account of social behaviour. We know, for instance, that there are more possible chess games than elementary particles in the universe, and more logical possibilities of reasons and choices than chess games. As an example, if A has to make a decision to B to perform C at some time in the future, but just before C there is another event X that will in effect put A in a different mental state than the time of making the decision (and possibly for the worse), then it would follow that there is risk of lost utility. If humans were invariant with respect to all stimulus, then the question of X would be immaterial to the performance of C, but most humans are not this consistent. From a Benthamite point of view, this sort of calculation would seem plausible from the perspective of utility maximisation. Hence, also, we can deduce that, whether one is this person or encounters another with reservations as such, one can reasonably conclude that they are weighing their options in the pursuit of rational utility maximisation. But we need to break this idea down still more. At loggerheads is the freedom to socially contract with other humans (something no doubt fundamental as the desire to travel to see other humans for social intercourse and recreation is fundamental to being human) but also the desire not to be bound by obligations prematurely should something better arise. That something better should possibly arise follows from the evolutionary rather than teleological nature of socialisation and thus a decision that appears competitive at t1 may not be the fiercest choice given the conditions at t2. Now, the future is not an entirely unknown quantity; the conditions of tomorrow follow from the conditions of today. Accordingly, the rule of thumb is to not make plans too far in advance given the fickle nature of people (although when everyone does this it collectively creates fickleness, but inconsistent people are not entirely unreliable so long as they are consistently inconsistent) and also because if one does one might miss a lot of the big things. Imagine that, just as a conversation became lively and intensely philosophical, Kant had to remark that the hand as just struck x and it time for his company to go home. The opportunity cost of knowledge foregone would be astronomical!

  10. #30
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    Wow...

    In your first post, you name-dropped Keynes, Kant, Bentham, and (by means of his work) Rousseau.

    Somebody here's got a major need to assert their intelligence...

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