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[INTJ] are you intjs able to create music spontaneously in your heads?

INTP

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i asked my intj friend that if he is able to imagine/create music spontaneously in his head, he went little like :huh: and said no. me and my infp friend are able to do this and i was wondering if this is a P(or Si Ne) thing.
the problem is that i want to do music with him, and he is unable to create music by composing it in his head and then just trying out what notes match what he composed in his head(he just started playing guitar). he said that he needs to learn to play some songs first and learn the notes before he can even think about composing music. it sounds pretty weird to me that someone is incapable to imagine music,, especially since it doesent have to be in real time and he only needs to do it for one instrument(i can do this in real time and use whole band, if drums arent too complicated, but i can do complicated drum fills if other instruments are simple at the time).
 

Within

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No, I believe it's because my thinking is far too dominated by my left brain half.
 

Nicodemus

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I am as good as Keith Jarrett, I just cannot play any damn instrument.
 

INTP

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I am as good as Keith Jarrett, I just cannot play any damn instrument.

im not asking that, im asking if you can create music spontaneously inside your head
 

Valiant

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I can compose music, write texts, sing and play a couple or three intstruments. But I forget... I'm not an INTJ anymore :D
 

mrcockburn

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I'm a rearranged INTJ, but yes. But then I'm also strongly right brained, if that's of relevance.
 

rav3n

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Not completely certain of my type, whether E or I so here goes. As a kid, I was forever humming or singing made up songs. Then...reality struck. They were really bad. Now I can't anymore since those neural connections have been closed for very good reason. :laugh:
 

Usehername

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I can do it, but I've had years of music training. Have you and your other friend been doing this for years? If he's new he may just be a neophyte at the skill rather than unable to do it.
 

Usehername

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audiation
Audiation is the process of mentally hearing and comprehending music, even when no physical sound is present. It is a cognitive process by which the brain gives meaning to musical sounds. In essence, audiation of music is analogous to thinking in a language. The term audiation should not be confused with audition, the mere perception of sound. Audiation is also more than just a musical form of auditory imagery. Developed audiation includes the necessary understanding of music to enable the conscious prediction of patterns in unfamiliar music.
The term audiation was coined in 1975 by music education researcher Edwin E. Gordon.

According to Gordon:
Although music is not a language, the process is the same for audiating and giving meaning to music as for thinking and giving meaning to speech. When you are listening to speech, you are giving meaning to what was just said by recalling and making connections with what you have heard on earlier occasions. At the same time, you are anticipating or predicting what you will be hearing next, based on your experience and understanding. Similarly, when you are listening to music, you are giving meaning to what you just heard by recalling what you have heard on earlier occasions. At the same time, you are anticipating or predicting what you are hearing next, based on your musical achievement. In other words, when you are audiating as you are listening to music, you are summarizing and generalizing from the specific music patterns you have just heard as a way to anticipate or predict what will follow. Every action becomes an interaction. What you are audiating depends on what you have already audiated. As audiation develops, the broader and deeper it becomes and thus the more it is able to reflect on itself. Members of an audience who are not audiating usually do not know when a piece of unfamiliar, or even familiar, music is nearing its end. They may applaud at any time, or not at all, unless they receive clues from others in the audience who are audiating. Through the process of audiation, we sing and move in our minds, without ever having to sing and move physically.[1] (Gordon, 1997, pp. 5-6)


Audiation is an essential element of Music Learning Theory, a research-based explanation of how humans learn music when they learn music. Although the term audiation has so far not entered into common music parlance, it has been gaining acceptance among music educators. Gordon criticizes traditional-minded educators for not directly teaching audiation, which he views as the foundation of musicianship.

A lot of people don't realize you're supposed to be doing this when you interact with an instrument.

When I switched from trumpet to trombone I instantly got better as a musician because I realized I could be audiating the sound before it came out. And when I say instantly I mean, one instant I was alright, and about three seconds later when I realized I should be audiating (without knowing the term) I was a very strong player.

I started out with piano. I don't think many pianists with not-so-great old school teachers (like me) knew this, because you can't affect the pitch on that instrument, so if you're a strong sight-reader (like I used to be) you just stare and play.

Music becomes more fun when you learn audiation. I didn't learn this until grade 9 school, and I started piano lessons at 5 years old.
 

musicheck

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not at all type related, and yes I can do it and am regularly compulsively doing it without thinking. I've also written a lot of music back in the day.
Also, left/right brain is not a helpful distinction here. If you look at actual MRIs of actual brains, doing music and math have a lot of overlap in what you see.
 

INTP

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I can do it, but I've had years of music training. Have you and your other friend been doing this for years? If he's new he may just be a neophyte at the skill rather than unable to do it.

i used to play guitar when i was in 5th and 6th grade, but i have been able to do this before, i just started playing bass like two weeks ago. my infp friend used to play bass few years ago for a while(his mental issues got in the way), im pretty sure that he could do this before he started playing bass.

i have been listening music pretty actively for long time(i listened sepultura, metallica etc when i was 10 years old) and i think i got pretty good understanding on music, even tho i havent played music all that much. that intj friend used to play drums few years ago, but what comes to his musical understanding, it seems that he doesent understand music well. i mean he listens to some good music, but he doesent really seem to understand those bands fully, its like hes only looking at the surface of all the big sounds mashed together. he doesent understand things like how some drum fill fits perfectly on some spot where guitar is played with some specific notes, i dunno what its called in english, but he doesent seem to understand things like playing some riff right amount of times and that it sounds bad if you play it one time too much, or playing(as in having fun playing) with music, kind of like jokingly using some notes so that it sounds funny.

im starting to doubt if its possible to make music with him, unless i write the guitars..

how do you compose music? do you just play(with instrument or simulate sounds in your head as if you were playing the instrument) what comes to your mind and write the good parts down? or how?
 
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I do write a bit of music and play piano/keyboard, guitar and bass. I'm personally a terrible sight-reader, always relied on playing by ear and "feel". But my composition technique is less improvisation, like what you're talking about, and more about setting up the structure of the song melody first, then chords, then the lyrics before I add other things. I need to sit down with an instrument before I'd be motivated to write anything, and the tune and chords just come out when I do. Then I arrange the verses and chorus and bridge and it's more or less done. I'd be too distracted and lose track of things if I tried to do this in my head.

I rely on a "feeling" to tell me when something feels right/wrong, and it feels like trial and error. In my Ni-based world, it's more of determining what "fits" with the whole and what doesn't. I've never really thought about it, just gone along with it because it works. I'd make a terrible improv musician, but I'm ok otherwise. That's why I don't like playing in a band or group of people and have my own solo project... I take time to figure things out, get upset when things don't "feel" right, and can't explain why I prefer certain things.
 

Stanton Moore

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My father (INTP) was always humming to himself, and I never recognized the melody, so I'm pretty sure he had this ability. He never played any instrument.
My INTJ friend is a song writer. He seems to be able to do this.

I don't think 'audiation' is the same thing as being able to make up new melodies spontaneously. Audiation is the ability to predict where music will go based on experience, based on what I read in Usehername's post. Most music is structurally predictable, so not hard to follow once you are familiar with how it typically moves.

I think the ability to 'hear' spontaneously created music in your head is neurological, and has nothing to do with type or personality. There is probably a small packet of cells in or near the auditory centers of the brain that fires randomly, and the brain takes this random input and attamps to codify it in a way that makes sense in terms of musical syntax.
 

Aleksei

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i asked my intj friend that if he is able to imagine/create music spontaneously in his head, he went little like :huh: and said no. me and my infp friend are able to do this and i was wondering if this is a P(or Si Ne) thing.
the problem is that i want to do music with him, and he is unable to create music by composing it in his head and then just trying out what notes match what he composed in his head(he just started playing guitar). he said that he needs to learn to play some songs first and learn the notes before he can even think about composing music. it sounds pretty weird to me that someone is incapable to imagine music,, especially since it doesent have to be in real time and he only needs to do it for one instrument(i can do this in real time and use whole band, if drums arent too complicated, but i can do complicated drum fills if other instruments are simple at the time).
I think your friend could be ISTJ. INTJs could probably do it if they were musically inclined (Beethoven was INTJ, I think).
 
T

ThatGirl

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Sometimes during dreams I wake up impressed with the way my mind can create such beautiful symphonies. While awake though, no.
 

INTP

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But my composition technique is less improvisation, like what you're talking about, and more about setting up the structure of the song melody first, then chords, then the lyrics before I add other things. I need to sit down with an instrument before I'd be motivated to write anything, and the tune and chords just come out when I do. Then I arrange the verses and chorus and bridge and it's more or less done. I'd be too distracted and lose track of things if I tried to do this in my head.

I rely on a "feeling" to tell me when something feels right/wrong, and it feels like trial and error. In my Ni-based world, it's more of determining what "fits" with the whole and what doesn't. I've never really thought about it, just gone along with it because it works. I'd make a terrible improv musician, but I'm ok otherwise. That's why I don't like playing in a band or group of people and have my own solo project... I take time to figure things out, get upset when things don't "feel" right, and can't explain why I prefer certain things.

this is exactly what i was thinking that he might do if he would try composing music.

I think your friend could be ISTJ. INTJs could probably do it if they were musically inclined (Beethoven was INTJ, I think).

his Si sucks and he is definitely an itj.

I think the ability to 'hear' spontaneously created music in your head is neurological, and has nothing to do with type or personality. There is probably a small packet of cells in or near the auditory centers of the brain that fires randomly, and the brain takes this random input and attamps to codify it in a way that makes sense in terms of musical syntax.

this started me thinking that maybe it has alot to do with that he doesent 'speak' inside his head when he is thinking or even when hes not thinking.
 

Aleksei

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his Si sucks and he is definitely an itj.
The thing about having to wrap his head around the music and learn the notes to start composing sounded pretty Si. It could be Se-Ti though... definitely not Ni in any case.

I'm not exactly confident in my own ability to compose music either though.
 

Coriolis

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I may have done some of this when very young, but then studied piano with classical training for years, which conditions one to follow and interpret the notes on the page. Now, I rarely come up with original melodies, but I can "hear" in my head something I've heard, sometimes even if I heard it only once, long ago. I can also hear it differently, essentially rearranging it. I do not compose new music, but I sometimes make arrangements for duets, chamber groups, etc. I have to write them out to be able to remember them later and reproduce them the way I want, but I usually hear them all at once, fully formed in my head.
I rely on a "feeling" to tell me when something feels right/wrong, and it feels like trial and error. In my Ni-based world, it's more of determining what "fits" with the whole and what doesn't. I've never really thought about it, just gone along with it because it works. I'd make a terrible improv musician, but I'm ok otherwise. That's why I don't like playing in a band or group of people and have my own solo project... I take time to figure things out, get upset when things don't "feel" right, and can't explain why I prefer certain things.
This describes my process fairly well. I don't follow any learned procedure; I just follow what sounds right.
 

freeeekyyy

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No, I believe it's because my thinking is far too dominated by my left brain half.


I'm pretty sure the left brain is involved pretty heavily in music. More on the rhythmic side of things than melodic, though.


Anyway, yeah, I make up music in my head a lot, especially when I'm dreaming, and I'm definitely INTJ.
 
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