[INTP] INTP development based on race, social status, and family

[Lucky_Rabbit]

I was wondering if anyone knew how INTP development in certain backgrounds would effect the way they percieve themselves. Im black (cuz africans hate when we say African American) and I'm an Intp (which sux ass when ur 6'8 shy, yet hyperactive, and your whole community doesnt have the same intuitive leaps, and all your friends expect your football stature to be sport oriented but ur into reading books and writing poetry and stuff.... ugh I feel like Oscar wilde without the homosexual flair). I went off track but What Im trying to say is. Is their an Intp who is raised in an environment where despite their best efforts they cant seem to fit in due to the natural ability to be a sore thumb in that world? You know what I mean?

 

[MacGuffin]

Do you have a hook shot or do you like to face up in the low post?

j/k

I imagine that culture and family can have a big impact on your personality. You may develop things as an INTP in an more extraverted and action-oriented family for example, that you wouldn't develop if you grew up in an introverted bookworm family. There are probably also strengths that aren't quite as developed as they would be in a more INTP-friendly environment.

That said, I wouldn't reject the parts of your environment that don't fit well with INTPs. They can help you become a more well-rounded person. Just be sure to also develop the parts that you find most appealing as well (like poetry).

 

[catalyst]

I am caucasian, 5'7" raised upper middle class as they come.....didn't help me fit in at all......

My son is 16, INTj, and he is 6'7". He is also high IQ. He constantly has complete strangers asking him what team he plays for.......it is frustrating to him as well. I will never forget the time he responded to yet another obnoxious stranger's inquiry and incredulity that he didn't play sports, "No, I don't play football - I'm a gentle giant".....It isn't so much that they ask - it's that they go on and on ad nauseum about the scholarships he COULD get if he only played sports, how he's breaking the hearts of coaches everywhere by not playing, yadda, yadda, yadda. He loves writing, reading, math, chem, physics, etc. He also does theatre, rabid music junkie, etc. He tried sports - enjoyed the game, couldn't stand the people involved. Was interested in basketball, but really just doesn't have the phsyical ability. He's awkward and clumsy.

Knowing him - and being his listening ear - sounds like you two have much in common, actually. My other son tested INTP, but he was so close with his percentages, he is more balanced and doesn't stand out so much. He 'blends' in. I think he is most likely ISTP. He IS great at sports, but lacks the team spirit.

 

[skylights]

^ i hate people who do that with stuff, even though i know they mean well. oh you would be so good at this, yadda yadda... well i don't want to do that. stop trying to guilt-trip me and leave me alone.

anyway i would just like to throw in that my little brother is white lower-upper class suburban kid with an INTP dad, but i know he still definitely feels like a sore thumb sometimes, especially at public school. i think he blends easily at first glance, though. he had the bieber haircut before bieber did, and his closest friend is probably an ESFP. but he definitely shuns the mainstream and obviously operates in a different way than a lot of people.

 

[Helios]

I was wondering if anyone knew how INTP development in certain backgrounds would effect the way they percieve themselves. Im black (cuz africans hate when we say African American) and I'm an Intp (which sux ass when ur 6'8 shy, yet hyperactive, and your whole community doesnt have the same intuitive leaps, and all your friends expect your football stature to be sport oriented but ur into reading books and writing poetry and stuff.... ugh I feel like Oscar wilde without the homosexual flair). I went off track but What Im trying to say is. Is their an Intp who is raised in an environment where despite their best efforts they cant seem to fit in due to the natural ability to be a sore thumb in that world? You know what I mean?

You're not an INTP.

 

[Blank]

You're not an INTP.

Nice rationale there.

 

[xisnotx]

cuz africans hate when we say African American

That's just because it doesn't make sense. There are plenty of non black people whose parents are both as African as it gets yet they aren't allowed to call themselves African American. African does not equal black. Black people using the term African American as if does is kind of insulting to all those Arab Africans in northern Africa, and all the non-black minorities of the southern African countries.
/rant.

Anyway I'm not sure being black and intp has caused me to stick out any more than any other intp. Judging by various internet forums being an intp pretty much guarantees being considered different. (As if there is a "not-different" in the first place, which I suspect there isn't. I think it's all in our head tbh.)

 

[rav3n]

Of the three INTPs that I've known in real life, they were fairly well-rounded. One was a runner, doing marathons whenever possible, loved to hike and climb. Another, beach volleyball, baseball and football. The last, hockey and basketball.

They were all brilliant, good at math, loved physics, were intensely curious about the world and almost desperately needed to know everything, about everything. One would suddenly inject poetry into a conversation, not always appropriately which made you go...WTF? Another, loved photography for its detail. Another, enjoyed cooking, making everything from scratch.

All IT guys too, in different capacities.

Don't let your external world stop you from doing what you love. But also, don't be afraid of what the real world has to offer. In other words, try not to limit yourself.

 

[Lucky_Rabbit]

IDK i was just wondering... tell you the truth i forgot i posted this... Im not really into posting I kinda just wanted to see if someone possibly had a pretty good answer or could relate or something... I just think its funny that when i try to fit it I either get bored or suck at it. Cuz when u look like shaq but u act like goofy ( clumsinees and all) its just awkward, but hey wat r u gonna do... thanks

 

[Helios]

Nice rationale there.

I'm afraid I don't understand what you're trying to say.

 

[Eric B]

It was difficult for me as well. For one thing, my particular environmnent seemed to be almost entirely STJ, and those who weren't were likely some sort of SP's, with a few NTJ's.

 

[proteanmix]

Lucky_Rabbit, you definitely have my sympathies. My brother is a black male INTP, 26, 6'3', 280 and gets asked all the time if he plays football. He doesn't even watch it. I know how hard a time he had in high school and I definitely regret some of my behavior towards him during that time in his life. I didn't understand why he couldn't switch modes the way I could, but now I do. I'm an ExFJ and I being Fe dominant allowed me to self-monitor and code switch more easily. Those experiences I had in high school has made me pretty adamant about opposing certain attitudes and behaviors now and being sensitive to them.

LOL, I remember reading Joyce Carol Oates' "Expensive People" when I was in high school and I put a paper bag book cover over it so no one would see what I was reading. I would hide my grades to pretend I scored lower than what I actually did, pretend that I didn't understand something when I did, pretended to listen to music I didn't even particularly like, hid that my parents were married and my father lived at home with us, wouldn't invite people over to my house so people didn't see that I actually lived in a house and not an apartment and my family was by no means rich. I don't care now, but I had to work for years on breaking myself out of some habits. I will say that when I got to college and now that I'm in the "real world" I meet more black people like me and just generally regardless of race more people that I can by myself around and relate to.

Black American culture due to history and survival has developed very difficult to uproot and restrictive expression of personality compared to mainstream white American culture. It's often difficult to explain and articulate the subtle differences and what they mean. In high school, it was something as simple as reading comic books or the small contingent of black kids who played Magic instead of reading Vibe Magazine or Source. It was that you would wear Sketchers instead of the latest Jordans and Timberlands, or instead of giving you a ham and cheese sandwich for lunch your parents packed you eggplant parmesan (<---that one happened..."you fancy, huh?" kind of thing). I look back and I think I can pick out the differences and then they are even more magnified. It's a weird mixture of both race and class, especially when you're both black, but a different class. Another thing I noticed is it was more OK to play Grand Theft Auto than World of Warcraft. To mainstream culture, those things don't look like a big deal, but when you're in high school and your every move is monitored and commented on these very small indicators of differentness accumulated and other people would ride you about.

 

[Lucky_Rabbit]

Lucky_Rabbit, you definitely have my sympathies. My brother is a black male INTP, 26, 6'3', 280 and gets asked all the time if he plays football. He doesn't even watch it. I know how hard a time he had in high school and I definitely regret some of my behavior towards him during that time in his life. I didn't understand why he couldn't switch modes the way I could, but now I do. I'm an ExFJ and I being Fe dominant allowed me to self-monitor and code switch more easily. Those experiences I had in high school has made me pretty adamant about opposing certain attitudes and behaviors now and being sensitive to them.

LOL, I remember reading Joyce Carol Oates' "Expensive People" when I was in high school and I put a paper bag book cover over it so no one would see what I was reading. I would hide my grades to pretend I scored lower than what I actually did, pretend that I didn't understand something when I did, pretended to listen to music I didn't even particularly like, hid that my parents were married and my father lived at home with us, wouldn't invite people over to my house so people didn't see that I actually lived in a house and not an apartment and my family was by no means rich. I don't care now, but I had to work for years on breaking myself out of some habits. I will say that when I got to college and now that I'm in the "real world" I meet more black people like me and just generally regardless of race more people that I can by myself around and relate to.

Black American culture due to history and survival has developed very difficult to uproot and restrictive expression of personality compared to mainstream white American culture. It's often difficult to explain and articulate the subtle differences and what they mean. In high school, it was something as simple as reading comic books or the small contingent of black kids who played Magic instead of reading Vibe Magazine or Source. It was that you would wear Sketchers instead of the latest Jordans and Timberlands, or instead of giving you a ham and cheese sandwich for lunch your parents packed you eggplant parmesan (<---that one happened..."you fancy, huh?" kind of thing). I look back and I think I can pick out the differences and then they are even more magnified. It's a weird mixture of both race and class, especially when you're both black, but a different class. Another thing I noticed is it was more OK to play Grand Theft Auto than World of Warcraft. To mainstream culture, those things don't look like a big deal, but when you're in high school and your every move is monitored and commented on these very small indicators of differentness accumulated and other people would ride you about.

I wont lie this was what i was looking for... I could hide it for a short time but the main problem was when i got comfortable around the people i associated myself with i would be me and not what everyone wanted or thought i was, thats where the problem was.... I kinda wish I had an ESFJ (well one that I liked or wouldnt buttheads over silly stuff) to chameleon when i was growing up so I could get a better feel on how to use my Fe in social situations. I dont know how your brother got through but I just amped up my Ne and used it to as a way of attracting those who could relate no matter the race, but slowly I got called an Uncle Tom. I maintained my position to not become one of the people who do favor a race outside their own.

 

[Spamtar]

I am an Irish American (Mother from the motherland) and lived a year of my childhood (3 years old) in Oxford, England. I was brought up and continue to live in Southern California.

That with being an INTP never made me feel like I fit in. It seems that most of those around me most of my life (especially preteen, teen and young adult years) were very materialistic, status concious and even racial/ethnic discriminatory (its ironic that I prolly talk more unpolitically correct than most of them but am nevertheless an introverted social butterfly when it comes to different types of people whom I befriend - or most often whom befriend me without my objection).

It is easier to deal with now as an adult in great part because I have chosen to embrace who I am (especially my introversion which in high school and college seemed near a sin).

My philosophy is endevour to fight against society forcing its values down your throat.

 

[lets eat pie]

Interesting post, proteanmix

I dont know how your brother got through but I just amped up my Ne and used it to as a way of attracting those who could relate no matter the race, but slowly I got called an Uncle Tom. I maintained my position to not become one of the people who do favor a race outside their own.

It seems like INTPs (I can't speak for the other NTs) seem to have quite a difficult time juggling racial identity and self-identity, as they're already so different from people around them.

I don't feel as if being ethnically Chinese makes up a very big part of me, as I don't even feel like I belong either to Chinese or American culture. I've accepted and rejected aspects of both cultures but I don't necessarily feel as if they make up how I see myself. While I grew up in a predominately Asian community, nevertheless I still feel different even from people of the same ethnicity. I never consider myself in terms of race but I'm always reminded by people that because I have Asian features I am different from the mainstream, especially whenever I leave my bubble. I remember taking an Asian-Am psychology class we learned where there were different classifications on how much one identifies with their own ethnicity. I learned that there was such a term called marginalization meaning one places little value on racial identity and not having that "pride" in one's race (which I always found a ridiculous notion.) I have to keep reminding myself that most people aren't like me and do place much more value on race/age/sex/ wealth than I do when it comes to judging someone's character.

Sometimes I wonder how life would be if I could walk around with a blank mask that betrays neither race, age, or sex. How differently would that change my interactions with the world? But I'm stuck with these traits for life so I'll just have to live with it.

It's inevitable that I am saddled with the stereotypes that comes with being a person of my ethnicity but the only way I know how to fight that is to be myself. I know some people want to unite as an ethnic group to "empower" themselves, but I find that idea rather dangerous, despite its intentions. It only replaces one stereotype with another and they're really trading one "box" for another.

 

[Qlip]

I'm Hispanic, but I've never really identified with that. But I don't believe it to be INTP related, I was raised non Catholic and I don't know Spanish. My best friend growing up is black, and INTx, and he doesn't like to be called black. He veered away from all of the cultural mainstays, he listened to Yanni back in the day, and dressed like a white kid.. in a predominately Mexican city. Of course, he was in a military family, and is very light skinned. So, basically, I have nothing to contribute, or maybe I do?

 

[Risen]

I'm also a black IxTP (usually more on an INTP lean). Culturally, blacks are definitely more SJ, so it makes it hard to fit in sometimes, especially when your personality brings a high level of intelligence with it. Book smart just doesn't fit in there, and can also set you apart from peers of other races/cultures. The key is to strike a balance between your natural uniqueness and your ability to blend in with the group. This requires the development of social skills and tricks, though being INTP makes that difficult to begin with. Use your cognitive abilities to alter your mindset, perceptions, thoughts... personality in a limited time frame to better pick up the social skills most useful in the environment you're in (around blacks). Change how you think and you can change your place in the world, even if it only lasts for a moment. If you're INTP I'm sure you can follow what I'm saying.

 

[MacGuffin]

If you're INTP I'm sure you can follow what I'm saying.

Yeah, but he's a black INTP, you should've talked jive.

 

[INTPness]

Yeah, but he's a black INTP, you should've talked jive.

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/52051ec56f/airplane-oh-stewardess-i-speak-jive-from-dirttron

 

[Cypocalypse]

I'm Filipino, male.

Some observations.

1. Philippines is generally an ISFJ culture. Because of that (in terms of sheer peer pressure), my Fe is relatively developed compared to "foreign" (American) NTPs that I "know". At least that's what it seems. On the other hand, they can exercise their individuality and intellectualism better. I can be a laid back intellectual here, and still appear very smart. Whereas I see lots and lots of INTP forum members that post more articulately than me, seemingly more intellectual.

2. Philippines is generally an introvert culture. Much like Japan and China, but not as hardcore. I'm considered extrovert in Filipino standards, but I would really appear "I" if I ever get to reside in the US, not to mention that English is only a second language for me.

3. In terms of demographics, NTPs are probably rarer here than there. I have this hunch that a more affluent culture is better likely to produce NTPs since you need to have a certain degree of financial liberty to pursue intellectual pursuits. Philippines is not an affluent country.