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  1. #11
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    It was difficult for me as well. For one thing, my particular environmnent seemed to be almost entirely STJ, and those who weren't were likely some sort of SP's, with a few NTJ's.
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  2. #12
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Lucky_Rabbit, you definitely have my sympathies. My brother is a black male INTP, 26, 6'3', 280 and gets asked all the time if he plays football. He doesn't even watch it. I know how hard a time he had in high school and I definitely regret some of my behavior towards him during that time in his life. I didn't understand why he couldn't switch modes the way I could, but now I do. I'm an ExFJ and I being Fe dominant allowed me to self-monitor and code switch more easily. Those experiences I had in high school has made me pretty adamant about opposing certain attitudes and behaviors now and being sensitive to them.

    LOL, I remember reading Joyce Carol Oates' "Expensive People" when I was in high school and I put a paper bag book cover over it so no one would see what I was reading. I would hide my grades to pretend I scored lower than what I actually did, pretend that I didn't understand something when I did, pretended to listen to music I didn't even particularly like, hid that my parents were married and my father lived at home with us, wouldn't invite people over to my house so people didn't see that I actually lived in a house and not an apartment and my family was by no means rich. I don't care now, but I had to work for years on breaking myself out of some habits. I will say that when I got to college and now that I'm in the "real world" I meet more black people like me and just generally regardless of race more people that I can by myself around and relate to.

    Black American culture due to history and survival has developed very difficult to uproot and restrictive expression of personality compared to mainstream white American culture. It's often difficult to explain and articulate the subtle differences and what they mean. In high school, it was something as simple as reading comic books or the small contingent of black kids who played Magic instead of reading Vibe Magazine or Source. It was that you would wear Sketchers instead of the latest Jordans and Timberlands, or instead of giving you a ham and cheese sandwich for lunch your parents packed you eggplant parmesan (<---that one happened..."you fancy, huh?" kind of thing). I look back and I think I can pick out the differences and then they are even more magnified. It's a weird mixture of both race and class, especially when you're both black, but a different class. Another thing I noticed is it was more OK to play Grand Theft Auto than World of Warcraft. To mainstream culture, those things don't look like a big deal, but when you're in high school and your every move is monitored and commented on these very small indicators of differentness accumulated and other people would ride you about.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
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  3. #13
    Member Lucky_Rabbit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    Lucky_Rabbit, you definitely have my sympathies. My brother is a black male INTP, 26, 6'3', 280 and gets asked all the time if he plays football. He doesn't even watch it. I know how hard a time he had in high school and I definitely regret some of my behavior towards him during that time in his life. I didn't understand why he couldn't switch modes the way I could, but now I do. I'm an ExFJ and I being Fe dominant allowed me to self-monitor and code switch more easily. Those experiences I had in high school has made me pretty adamant about opposing certain attitudes and behaviors now and being sensitive to them.

    LOL, I remember reading Joyce Carol Oates' "Expensive People" when I was in high school and I put a paper bag book cover over it so no one would see what I was reading. I would hide my grades to pretend I scored lower than what I actually did, pretend that I didn't understand something when I did, pretended to listen to music I didn't even particularly like, hid that my parents were married and my father lived at home with us, wouldn't invite people over to my house so people didn't see that I actually lived in a house and not an apartment and my family was by no means rich. I don't care now, but I had to work for years on breaking myself out of some habits. I will say that when I got to college and now that I'm in the "real world" I meet more black people like me and just generally regardless of race more people that I can by myself around and relate to.

    Black American culture due to history and survival has developed very difficult to uproot and restrictive expression of personality compared to mainstream white American culture. It's often difficult to explain and articulate the subtle differences and what they mean. In high school, it was something as simple as reading comic books or the small contingent of black kids who played Magic instead of reading Vibe Magazine or Source. It was that you would wear Sketchers instead of the latest Jordans and Timberlands, or instead of giving you a ham and cheese sandwich for lunch your parents packed you eggplant parmesan (<---that one happened..."you fancy, huh?" kind of thing). I look back and I think I can pick out the differences and then they are even more magnified. It's a weird mixture of both race and class, especially when you're both black, but a different class. Another thing I noticed is it was more OK to play Grand Theft Auto than World of Warcraft. To mainstream culture, those things don't look like a big deal, but when you're in high school and your every move is monitored and commented on these very small indicators of differentness accumulated and other people would ride you about.
    I wont lie this was what i was looking for... I could hide it for a short time but the main problem was when i got comfortable around the people i associated myself with i would be me and not what everyone wanted or thought i was, thats where the problem was.... I kinda wish I had an ESFJ (well one that I liked or wouldnt buttheads over silly stuff) to chameleon when i was growing up so I could get a better feel on how to use my Fe in social situations. I dont know how your brother got through but I just amped up my Ne and used it to as a way of attracting those who could relate no matter the race, but slowly I got called an Uncle Tom. I maintained my position to not become one of the people who do favor a race outside their own.
    love is boring without infidelity. thanks to an unknown visitor i spelt infidelity correctly now

  4. #14
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    I am an Irish American (Mother from the motherland) and lived a year of my childhood (3 years old) in Oxford, England. I was brought up and continue to live in Southern California.

    That with being an INTP never made me feel like I fit in. It seems that most of those around me most of my life (especially preteen, teen and young adult years) were very materialistic, status concious and even racial/ethnic discriminatory (its ironic that I prolly talk more unpolitically correct than most of them but am nevertheless an introverted social butterfly when it comes to different types of people whom I befriend - or most often whom befriend me without my objection).

    It is easier to deal with now as an adult in great part because I have chosen to embrace who I am (especially my introversion which in high school and college seemed near a sin).

    My philosophy is endevour to fight against society forcing its values down your throat.
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  5. #15
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    Interesting post, proteanmix

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucky_Rabbit View Post
    I dont know how your brother got through but I just amped up my Ne and used it to as a way of attracting those who could relate no matter the race, but slowly I got called an Uncle Tom. I maintained my position to not become one of the people who do favor a race outside their own.
    It seems like INTPs (I can't speak for the other NTs) seem to have quite a difficult time juggling racial identity and self-identity, as they're already so different from people around them.

    I don't feel as if being ethnically Chinese makes up a very big part of me, as I don't even feel like I belong either to Chinese or American culture. I've accepted and rejected aspects of both cultures but I don't necessarily feel as if they make up how I see myself. While I grew up in a predominately Asian community, nevertheless I still feel different even from people of the same ethnicity. I never consider myself in terms of race but I'm always reminded by people that because I have Asian features I am different from the mainstream, especially whenever I leave my bubble. I remember taking an Asian-Am psychology class we learned where there were different classifications on how much one identifies with their own ethnicity. I learned that there was such a term called marginalization meaning one places little value on racial identity and not having that "pride" in one's race (which I always found a ridiculous notion.) I have to keep reminding myself that most people aren't like me and do place much more value on race/age/sex/ wealth than I do when it comes to judging someone's character.

    Sometimes I wonder how life would be if I could walk around with a blank mask that betrays neither race, age, or sex. How differently would that change my interactions with the world? But I'm stuck with these traits for life so I'll just have to live with it.

    It's inevitable that I am saddled with the stereotypes that comes with being a person of my ethnicity but the only way I know how to fight that is to be myself. I know some people want to unite as an ethnic group to "empower" themselves, but I find that idea rather dangerous, despite its intentions. It only replaces one stereotype with another and they're really trading one "box" for another.

  6. #16
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    I'm Hispanic, but I've never really identified with that. But I don't believe it to be INTP related, I was raised non Catholic and I don't know Spanish. My best friend growing up is black, and INTx, and he doesn't like to be called black. He veered away from all of the cultural mainstays, he listened to Yanni back in the day, and dressed like a white kid.. in a predominately Mexican city. Of course, he was in a military family, and is very light skinned. So, basically, I have nothing to contribute, or maybe I do?

  7. #17
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    I'm also a black IxTP (usually more on an INTP lean). Culturally, blacks are definitely more SJ, so it makes it hard to fit in sometimes, especially when your personality brings a high level of intelligence with it. Book smart just doesn't fit in there, and can also set you apart from peers of other races/cultures. The key is to strike a balance between your natural uniqueness and your ability to blend in with the group. This requires the development of social skills and tricks, though being INTP makes that difficult to begin with. Use your cognitive abilities to alter your mindset, perceptions, thoughts... personality in a limited time frame to better pick up the social skills most useful in the environment you're in (around blacks). Change how you think and you can change your place in the world, even if it only lasts for a moment. If you're INTP I'm sure you can follow what I'm saying.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    If you're INTP I'm sure you can follow what I'm saying.
    Yeah, but he's a black INTP, you should've talked jive.

  9. #19
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    Yeah, but he's a black INTP, you should've talked jive.
    http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/520...-from-dirttron
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

  10. #20
    Senior Member Cypocalypse's Avatar
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    I'm Filipino, male.

    Some observations.

    1. Philippines is generally an ISFJ culture. Because of that (in terms of sheer peer pressure), my Fe is relatively developed compared to "foreign" (American) NTPs that I "know". At least that's what it seems. On the other hand, they can exercise their individuality and intellectualism better. I can be a laid back intellectual here, and still appear very smart. Whereas I see lots and lots of INTP forum members that post more articulately than me, seemingly more intellectual.

    2. Philippines is generally an introvert culture. Much like Japan and China, but not as hardcore. I'm considered extrovert in Filipino standards, but I would really appear "I" if I ever get to reside in the US, not to mention that English is only a second language for me.

    3. In terms of demographics, NTPs are probably rarer here than there. I have this hunch that a more affluent culture is better likely to produce NTPs since you need to have a certain degree of financial liberty to pursue intellectual pursuits. Philippines is not an affluent country.

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