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  1. #61
    ReflecTcelfeR
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    Calmness does scare a great deal of people. Anyone who isn't having a problem like they are needs to be 'fixed'.

  2. #62
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecttcelfeR View Post
    Calmness does scare a great deal of people. Anyone who isn't having a problem like they are needs to be 'fixed'.
    Is this a general impression among ENTPs? Cause I prefer to solve problems with a certain level of calmness, that's what works best for me.

  3. #63
    ReflecTcelfeR
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    I don't think Ne allows 'calmness' if it doesn't make every connection it possibly can and then connect those aspects together then it isn't doing enough work. In order for us to make those connections you need to find information and as we like to bounce our ideas off of people you need as many references and info as possible so you may talk to dozens of people in order to make the best connections possible and by best I mean logical as Ti will try it's best to filter it all. As many ideas at once is the goal. It's a naturally chaotic state.

  4. #64
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecttcelfeR View Post
    I don't think Ne allows 'calmness' if it doesn't make every connection it possibly can and then connect those aspects together then it isn't doing enough work. In order for you to make those connections you need to find information and as we like to bounce our ideas off of people. As many ideas at once is the goal. It's a naturally chaotic state.
    I notice that often with my interactions with ENPs - especially ENFPs. They're far more excitable, and that's ok if I'm in an excited mood as well. If I'm not, or in great need of some quiet reflective time, it's impact can be rather negative for me. At those times, it literally can feel like I'm under full assault and being cornered. And that's when the ENP is trying to be friendly with me. I certainly have had a few experiences like that.

    In debates, the common impression is that of all-out war at times, often out of complete proportions.

  5. #65
    ReflecTcelfeR
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    Yeah. Sometimes we need to be told to just be quiet. We (I) usually end up enjoying it. This was the major connections I was trying to make. Your above statement. I wondered if the chaotic nature of Ne could be intimidating to others, but as with everything else it is based on timing.

  6. #66
    Sniffles
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    Enjoy as in heated discussions?

  7. #67
    ReflecTcelfeR
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    The quiet time. It just isn't our natural state of thinking.

  8. #68
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    This roughly parallels my impression of certain ENTPs. It's more annoying than intimidating, especially when some ENTPs get all aggressive over any little thing. I'm often scratching my head as to what the hell that person's problem is. Plus half the time I can't tell if the person is being serious or just playing around - which makes it more annyoing from my perspective. Plus all too often they try to lecture me on stuff I already know, but yet address me as if I didn't know anything.
    This happens to me too, though I can easily tell if it's "play" or just an attempt to rough me up. There is an ENTP I've known for 15 years. When he's in a high state of nervous excitement, feeling defensive or unhappy, he'll tell me that I don't know him, that I can't make statements of knowledge about him even though he knows dratted well that I *do* know him and know him well. I "get" him and that deeply bothers him sometimes. The fact that I can speak of his character or of him as an individual with more certainty than he can even muster for himself is a point of incredible agitation for him. He has used his intellect/logic against people (and paired with tertiary Fe, it can hit you like a jackhammer when in a punishing mood).

    Then again, he's pretty maladjusted and half-feral in the first place. While I'm used to dealing with neurotic genius, it does wear me out when they absolutely refuse to settle down and be known. Perhaps it feels like the end of the road somehow, that someone else can understand you without effort. He blurted, "You know, HOW... HOW do you speak of me with such... what is that... certainty? You... NO ONE really knows me..." I sat there until he was done reeling, and said quietly, "Alright. You're a sphinx. All better now?" I think it bothered him that I was mostly immune to his tirades.

    However, running other people to death is not endearing.
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
    Neutral Good
    EII-Fi subtype, Ethical/Empath, Delta/Beta
    RLUEI, Choleric/Melancholic
    Inquistive/Limbic
    AIS Holland code
    Researcher: VDI-P
    Dramatic>Sensitive>Serious

  9. #69
    ReflecTcelfeR
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    I think it might be the fear that once you have 'figured us out' we no longer carry the spark that our craziness (eccentricity) gives off. We're afraid of losing what, unadjusted peoples of these types me included, makes us special. This is how I feel usually. It's a confidence crippler when you're figured out.

  10. #70
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecttcelfeR View Post
    I think it might be the fear that once you have 'figured us out' we no longer carry the spark that our craziness (eccentricity) gives off.
    Cannot the "spark" become stronger if seen by understanding eyes? Causing mystery or confusion is not, in and of itself, the inherent power of the spark. There's nothing mysterious about a veiling curtain to me. That curtain's toast. What I'm after is truth which means whatever is being veiled. I'm not trying to remove the essence of the object - I simply want to understand it and view it from all angles. "If you really knew me, you wouldn't like me" is something we learn from others. That's a huge problem for me as an NFJ in the first place because we all seem to hold the idea that we're monsters.

    We're afraid of losing what, unadjusted peoples of these types me included, makes us special. This is how I feel usually.
    Might you explain this phenomenon in your own words? And when did you adopt this mindset?

    It's a confidence crippler when you're figured out.
    And in a very strange way, I'm sorry for it. It's never been my intention to cause such upheaval with the ENTPs in my life. I want them to feel safe, and I feel that I've created an environment for them to say whatever they need to in my presence. But in those darker moments when they're clearly staggering around with spears in their back and blood is running into their eyes, it's difficult to get any sense out of them - logic can't save you, logic can't tell you what the heart wants/needs.

    When someone "has your number", yes, it's terrifying, I've been there, but knowledge leads to power ultimately and maybe *that's* the real trouble - having power over someone else through knowledge of them. Who isn't startled by that? As an NFJ, especially as an ENFJ, I spend most of my time underground/submerged. I think the NFJ need to not be "exposed" is shown as a parallel in the ENTP. It can be a very equal trade if both parties don't panic at the sight of their reflection. NFJs don't relish the idea of being stripped bare either. We're very protective of ourselves for survival reasons.

    I remember watching young deer run and spring around the horse pasture like pinballs and my horses played with them. If you can hop the fence, you can run mad. I've tried to impress that on them. They know the door is open, but they take it only rarely when they're practically bleeding to death and really need me.
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
    Neutral Good
    EII-Fi subtype, Ethical/Empath, Delta/Beta
    RLUEI, Choleric/Melancholic
    Inquistive/Limbic
    AIS Holland code
    Researcher: VDI-P
    Dramatic>Sensitive>Serious

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