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  1. #1
    "Everything in its place" fill's Avatar
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    Default NT in an F-dominated network.

    Nearly all of my friends and family rely on their feelings over logic.

    I'm one of the only voices in my group of people I'm around a lot that will serve cold reasoning, and I've found it's only appreciated a small percentage of the time, usually when I use it against somebody or something a feeling type dislikes. I end up offending people when I give my analysis on anything that they have a positive emotional attachment to (which seems like everything).

    I may be around people that aren't developed well enough to tell the difference between insults and plain old observation. I've begun to really become fond of an ENTJ I know because of how straightforward he is in saying what he thinks about something. It's refreshing.

    Has anyone else been in this position before? If so what did you do? Did you succumb to F demands and begin recurrently considering their feelings or simply not care and stayed yourself? Do you change your process of thinking for the sake of people or harness your T into doing what you do best?
    "Poor bastard. Wait 'till he sees the bats. "
    enneagram - 7/5/3

  2. #2
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    People aren't logical, they're emotional. All people. So it's illogical to presume that they're going to react in a logical manner. The most logical thing you can do in an emotional environment is appeal to people's emotions.

    What I've done in my F family is learn the repertoire of F skills and do my pushups with those skillsets. Then, when those moments arise that cold, calculating analysis is wanted (wait until people verbally and explicitly ask) I pull it out and people appreciate it.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  3. #3
    morose bourgeoisie
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    No. I've never experienced that. But I can only assume that it's incredibly difficult to be so unquestionable 'right' so often.

  4. #4
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Harness your N & T into developing new strategies to communicate with your family that meet both their needs and yours.

    Sometimes you might just be phrasing things in really sucky ways, or expressing them at sucky times. You gotta get a sense of why they are reading you how they're reading you, and seeing what you can do to smooth down communication from your end. You can't control them... although I guess you could piss them off or exclude them from your life.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #5
    Senior Member tkae.'s Avatar
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    Is it bad that I laughed at this?

    I'm laughing with you of course. Even if you don't see how it's funny yet
    "Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away." -Ekaku Hakuin
    http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...psdunkqmep.png
    5w4 . IEI . Chaotic Good
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  6. #6
    Emerging Tallulah's Avatar
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    Yeah, you need to adjust your presentation a bit. You might also be coming off as a little more forceful or intense than you realize. Pay attention to what people say about your manner of speaking and then do some self-analysis. Make it a game to figure out how to present your message in a way that will be well-received by a wider audience. In other words, what Jennifer said.

    I know at some point someone will pipe in with a tirade on how we shouldn't have to adjust our presentation, and that the NT way isn't lacking, etc. And that's cool. But I have been put off by the presentation of fellow NTs before, too, when their message itself was just fine. If you want your ideas to reach the greatest amount of people, you have to learn to speak their language at least a little bit. To refuse to do so is a bit arrogant, in my mind.
    Something Witty

  7. #7
    Giggity Vie's Avatar
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    I'm in a family with all feeling types, aside from my one sister who is a complete cow to get along with. All of my friends are feelers as well, the only one who does seem to enjoy my cold calculating ways is my SO. Generally, I try to curb my thoughts unless they ask for them as they tend to be unwanted otherwise.

    I find myself confused by my friends being rather emotional all the time. Instead of wallowing in it in private, they cry out in open public. It's frightening.

    I've found it much easier just to give my input when they ask for it. They usually do after a while and then the respect my viewpoint. When I try to offer my advice before hand...eek, I just know better.

  8. #8
    ThatGirl
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    I have actually been experiencing this a LOT lately. The basic idea, "We don't care if it is wrong or right, it is serving an emotional purpose."

    It is frustrating, and to be honest a little weird given the recent frequency.

    People trying to get you to shut up or back down on a clearly logical situation for the sake of emotional prospects.

    I don't know how people live like this. Or how they put their emotions in front of so many other factors. It seems self centered to me.

    The more I experience this the more it makes me just want to say fuck it to everyone. Which I pretty much have. I think what bothers me the most about it, is that personal feelings can hinder actual progress. It fucks with my senses, because suddenly what was a clear cut situation with one viable solution is now seen as wrong and accrues consequence on my part.

    Like what was right is wrong and what is wrong is not right but shhhh we wont think about that now.

    Makes me want to punch things. Not only that but I am viewed as the one who is emotionally retarded. >/

  9. #9
    now! in shell form INA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fill View Post
    Nearly all of my friends and family rely on their feelings over logic.

    I'm one of the only voices in my group of people I'm around a lot that will serve cold reasoning, and I've found it's only appreciated a small percentage of the time, usually when I use it against somebody or something a feeling type dislikes. I end up offending people when I give my analysis on anything that they have a positive emotional attachment to (which seems like everything).
    I'm in a similar situation (more Fs than Ts) but it's unusual that my friends or family get offended. It will happen if I say these things to a wider circle, so I keep it to myself. About what exactly are you giving your opinion? Maybe you share more than you need to or is helpful. Maybe these particular people don't know you well enough to know you mean well when you decline to pretty up your opinion.
    Then again, I'm not around people belligerently impervious to reason.
    hoarding time and space
    A single event can awaken within us a stranger totally unknown to us. To live is to be slowly born.
    — Antoine de Saint-Exupery

  10. #10
    "Everything in its place" fill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    The most logical thing you can do in an emotional environment is appeal to people's emotions.
    You're right, but this raises a couple issues for me. The first being a fear of becoming obsessed with what people think of me and how I'm perceived more than I already am (comfortably so at the moment) without realizing it. Secondly, if I begin to appeal to people's emotions, I'm not being sincere. At all. It's a quite selfish and manipulative act on my part. The only way I can get through with these people, it seems, is to use the shit out of my Ne and be the guy with the witty commentary, like a comedian. I'm okay with that role for people I don't know well, but the entire reason I keep close friends are to share insight back and forth, free of conflict.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tallulah View Post
    Yeah, you need to adjust your presentation a bit. You might also be coming off as a little more forceful or intense than you realize. Pay attention to what people say about your manner of speaking and then do some self-analysis. [...] you have to learn to speak their language at least a little bit. To refuse to do so is a bit arrogant, in my mind.
    I totally agree, and that's an effective method, but I feel like I'm doing all of the work. Why should I be forced to make everything friendly to everyone's ears if they're not willing to toughen up to some views every once in a while?

    Quote Originally Posted by vieamemusique View Post
    I find myself confused by my friends being rather emotional all the time. Instead of wallowing in it in private, they cry out in open public. It's frightening.

    I've found it much easier just to give my input when they ask for it. They usually do after a while and then the respect my viewpoint. When I try to offer my advice before hand...eek, I just know better.
    That's another way to look at it. Maybe I should just stay quiet and put my ideas to use in a nonverbal way; they might realize what they're missing when it's gone...

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    I have actually been experiencing this a LOT lately. The basic idea, "We don't care if it is wrong or right, it is serving an emotional purpose."

    It is frustrating, and to be honest a little weird given the recent frequency.

    People trying to get you to shut up or back down on a clearly logical situation for the sake of emotional prospects.

    I don't know how people live like this. Or how they put their emotions in front of so many other factors. It seems self centered to me.

    The more I experience this the more it makes me just want to say fuck it to everyone. Which I pretty much have. I think what bothers me the most about it, is that personal feelings can hinder actual progress. It fucks with my senses, because suddenly what was a clear cut situation with one viable solution is now seen as wrong and accrues consequence on my part.

    Like what was right is wrong and what is wrong is not right but shhhh we wont think about that now.
    Yes to all of this.

    Makes me want to punch things. Not only that but I am viewed as the one who is emotionally retarded. >/
    YEAH. THIS PISSES ME OFF. Since I've frequently given my ENFJ friend advice quite absent of any emotional aspect to it, he's eventually started to assume I don't have any feelings. He even got mad at me once told me I was empty of emotion. That made me want to scream and prove him wrong. I have emotions; I just don't let them affect my decision making unless I (My Ti?) deems it necessary. Humans have emotions. If a family member dies, I'm not going to sit around saying, "Oh, well, technically, they were just an accumulation of cells formed from millions of years of evolution. It's just material. Besides, people die every day. Why mourn for this one?" That's cold, T thinking there, but it serves no purpose in extreme personal cases.


    Quote Originally Posted by INA View Post
    About what exactly are you giving your opinion?
    Just my general sarcastic views on people, society, pop-culture, etc. I'll say something, completely halfhearted, and I get a quiet, negative response from them like I just put them in a bad mood. I almost want to just tell them to relax - laugh. I'm not being serious; I don't care! I just like to shoot the shit and look like I'm trying to convince someone in the process. I thought they knew this. It seems they must not have.
    "Poor bastard. Wait 'till he sees the bats. "
    enneagram - 7/5/3

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