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  1. #11
    Aquaria mrcockburn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fill View Post
    Nearly all of my friends and family rely on their feelings over logic.

    I'm one of the only voices in my group of people I'm around a lot that will serve cold reasoning, and I've found it's only appreciated a small percentage of the time, usually when I use it against somebody or something a feeling type dislikes. I end up offending people when I give my analysis on anything that they have a positive emotional attachment to (which seems like everything).

    I may be around people that aren't developed well enough to tell the difference between insults and plain old observation. I've begun to really become fond of an ENTJ I know because of how straightforward he is in saying what he thinks about something. It's refreshing.

    Has anyone else been in this position before? If so what did you do? Did you succumb to F demands and begin recurrently considering their feelings or simply not care and stayed yourself? Do you change your process of thinking for the sake of people or harness your T into doing what you do best?
    I grew up SURROUNDED by F's. Finding a T was like an oasis.

    Worse, my parents were F-DOMs, not just F-aux. ESFJ + ISFP = every goddamn thing revolves around FEELINGS. And of course, the friends they chose were invariably F's as well. Means even MORE ESFJs.

    Now, being T-DOM, not just T-aux, and the only one at that presented quite a challenge. However, as frustrating as it was to constantly have to mind my F's and 's, it really taught me how to address people's "emotions" to get what I need in life. I learned to purposely present my argument based on emotion, and I got what I wanted every time. Whereas before, I stubbornly presented my case with step-by-step logic and plans and got nowhere.

    Grit through it, and learn from the experience. Being immersed in F-ville will learn you a lot about what buttons to push.
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  2. #12
    Senior Member Coco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fill View Post
    Nearly all of my friends and family rely on their feelings over logic.
    Do you have a concrete example of one of those situations?

  3. #13
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fill View Post
    Nearly all of my friends and family rely on their feelings over logic.

    I'm one of the only voices in my group of people I'm around a lot that will serve cold reasoning, and I've found it's only appreciated a small percentage of the time, usually when I use it against somebody or something a feeling type dislikes. I end up offending people when I give my analysis on anything that they have a positive emotional attachment to (which seems like everything).

    I may be around people that aren't developed well enough to tell the difference between insults and plain old observation. I've begun to really become fond of an ENTJ I know because of how straightforward he is in saying what he thinks about something. It's refreshing.

    Has anyone else been in this position before? If so what did you do? Did you succumb to F demands and begin recurrently considering their feelings or simply not care and stayed yourself? Do you change your process of thinking for the sake of people or harness your T into doing what you do best?


    Perhaps this: Don't argue and don't criticize.

    Think of it as an opportunity. It's good practice.

    Please provide feedback on my Nohari and Johari Window by clicking here: Nohari/Johari

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  4. #14
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    I have actually been experiencing this a LOT lately. The basic idea, "We don't care if it is wrong or right, it is serving an emotional purpose."

    It is frustrating, and to be honest a little weird given the recent frequency.

    People trying to get you to shut up or back down on a clearly logical situation for the sake of emotional prospects.

    I don't know how people live like this. Or how they put their emotions in front of so many other factors. It seems self centered to me.
    When I encounter this, if the situation doesn't affect me, I just let them be. People have a right to make stupid, emotion-laden decisions. If I am involved, I will try to influence the outcome, usually by asking questions. Sometimes I am able in this way to lead the other person to realize that their approach is not the best, or will have unwelcome consequences. Failing this, I will be more blatant in my explanation.

    Quote Originally Posted by fill View Post
    You're right, but this raises a couple issues for me. The first being a fear of becoming obsessed with what people think of me and how I'm perceived more than I already am (comfortably so at the moment) without realizing it. Secondly, if I begin to appeal to people's emotions, I'm not being sincere. At all. It's a quite selfish and manipulative act on my part. The only way I can get through with these people, it seems, is to use the shit out of my Ne and be the guy with the witty commentary, like a comedian. I'm okay with that role for people I don't know well, but the entire reason I keep close friends are to share insight back and forth, free of conflict.
    The highlighted is a major issue for me as well. When I use these "F tools", I feel like a hypocrite, like I am pretending to be something I am not, and betraying my own values.

  5. #15
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    I often got the same crap when I was younger and I'm a Feeler. I'm just pretty private about expressing emotion and I think it's foolish to let fleeting emotions run my life.

    I can't tell you how much it means to me to have a partner who appreciates my sarcasm and snark.

    OTOH, I think roughly half the population are Feelers (and truthfully, not all Thinkers are rational people who have a good handle on their emotions any more than all feelers are emo basket cases), so I've developed a skill set for dealing with folks like that most of the time. I guess because Fe is my secondary function, I don't find it unnatural or insincere any more than it would be unnatural or dishonest for me to use a screw driver instead of trying to turn a screw with my fingernail.

    What has ended up happening is that my calm demeanor and supportive attitude seems to help people feel heard and after they have vented the emotion to some degree, they are able to think more clearly and sometimes talk about practical solutions to whatever was distressing them. Doesn't always work, but it at least helps some of the time.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  6. #16
    ¡MI TORTA! Amethyst's Avatar
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    For the most part, I just don't give a shit about it anymore, unless they give me shit about their feelings that I've hurt. :rolli:

    I don't think it's just an F thing though, it could be a 'I'm having a really fucking bad day so I'm just going to emotionally lash out at the next person who speaks to me' thing...but I don't know...me and my mom are currently fighting about this at the moment, I call her a hypocrite, and she lashes out at me for attacking her.

  7. #17
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    When I encounter this, if the situation doesn't affect me, I just let them be. People have a right to make stupid, emotion-laden decisions. If I am involved, I will try to influence the outcome, usually by asking questions. Sometimes I am able in this way to lead the other person to realize that their approach is not the best, or will have unwelcome consequences. Failing this, I will be more blatant in my explanation.


    The highlighted is a major issue for me as well. When I use these "F tools", I feel like a hypocrite, like I am pretending to be something I am not, and betraying my own values.
    Lest we forget - Feeling (Fe or Fi) is a rational function, unlike intuition (Ne or Ni) which is an irrational function.

    Please provide feedback on my Nohari and Johari Window by clicking here: Nohari/Johari

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  8. #18
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    I do tend to ignore 'values' that some have if it hinders the overall state of living. Breaking, or even bending ever-so-slightly what you believe in can do wonders to solving issues. However, it would take convincing in order for the person holding those values to accept. It depends on which values they perceive to be crossed when you help with your advice. I'd probe to see what value they think is being dejected, or ignored and see if your advice truly goes against that, or if you are simply being misunderstood. In which case altering your communication style is pertinent.

  9. #19
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    i actually feel similar but on the grounds of having tert Te with Fi and most of my family and close friends having Dom Fe and or Dom Ti.

    my Te is strong, as far as a tertiary can go, and i get complained at a lot for it - especially from my Fe dom mom. i'm just trying to help fix or streamline things that obviously aren't working, and she'll be freaking out because she thinks i'm saying her way is bad and somehow that means she's a bad mother, etc. etc. i've gotten the same thing from my best friend, too. i talked about some internal drama within an organization we were in once while she was the head of it, and somehow she turned that observation into "you are a bad leader" and guilt tripped the shit out of me. i feel like i have to adapt a lot, otherwise i get complained at.

    it really does get tiring to have to act a way you don't normally, but at the same time, i try to see it as learning to be diplomatic. if i can get my points across in a way that's not upsetting, then i don't really sacrifice anything.

    -

    on the other hand - i'm surprised to hear some people familiar with the MBTI being so adverse to the presence of emotional decision-making. emotional does not equal stupid - only illogical. sure, Feelers can make dumb decisions in bouts of emotion, or because they're super-attached to people, but Thinkers can make dumb decisions when they're completely ignoring the fact that their emotions are influencing their behavior (not decision-making - just behavior), or when they assume that others will act in a logical way too. i've watched my Ti dom dad slam doors and snap at my brother and insult my mom and then claim to "not be irritated/frustrated/whatever". well, obviously something's going on somewhere, because that's far removed from his normal behavior.

    Quote Originally Posted by highlander
    Perhaps this: Don't argue and don't criticize.
    lol! to refine:

    • it's okay to disagree. just point out what, if anything, you agree with first - otherwise it can read as an attack.

    • it's okay to criticize. just ask if the person is interested in hearing your criticism first - when it's totally unexpected it can also read as a "hey you suck." or "i don't like you". i'm a fan of objective criticism but i like to know when it's coming.


    especially because the same statement can come from a T and an F (and even Te/Fi and Fe/Ti) and, depending on the tone, can mean two totally different things.

    and honestly, sometimes people just really don't want criticism, even if they're being really stupid. and criticizing will just make them not like you. they'll fuck up and figure it out themselves eventually, even though it's aggravating to watch them.

  10. #20
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    Lest we forget - Feeling (Fe or Fi) is a rational function, unlike intuition (Ne or Ni) which is an irrational function.
    Ne/Ni are not decision-making functions, though, they are perception functions. In other words, they provide input to the decision making process conducted by F or T. F may be a rational function, and really refers to values rather than to emotion. One can make a rational decision guided by internal or external values. In fact, everyone has values input to their decision making process, whatever it is. It seems to be more common, however, for F's to bypass the values-based rational process and let decisions and actions be driven directly by emotional reflexes, than it is to see the analogous emotional short-circuit in T's. When T's do indulge in this, though, it is just as disturbing if not moreso.

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