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  1. #1
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Default NT Women and Loss of Personhood

    There are aspects of traditionalism whereby the woman is consumed in a relationship. Her role becomes supporting, an extension of the man and their respective progeny. Her personhood is lost. She becomes a martyr for everyone else, an object with practical applications. What have you done for me lately?

    It's one thing to want to give and take within a relationship and another through societal perceptions to be expected to be the little woman. Coerced loss of being and freedom.

    Don't traditional men realise how egocentric they are?

    All of this triggers walls within me. It's teeth gritting when I perceive it, particularly when my personal boundaries are being pushed against or attempts are made to erode those boundaries.

    Do other women feel this way?

  2. #2
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    This is why I often get labelled a dick by some women. I'm just as hard with them as I am with man in social interaction. I like to incite the sense that they need to be independent thinkers too, fend for themselves and take bullshit from no one.

    On the other hand, I hate nothing more than a feminist. I hate revenge mentality.

  3. #3
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    that's called paternalism, stypg.

    Metaphor, I don't think bristling at traditional expectations is limited to NT women.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  4. #4
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post

    Don't traditional men realise how egocentric they are?
    Why would they? There's no incentive to do so.
    All of this triggers walls within me. It's teeth gritting when I perceive it, particularly when my personal boundaries are being pushed against or attempts are made to erode those boundaries.

    Do other women feel this way?
    I don't allow anyone to push my boundaries. You are not powerless in this equation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    that's called paternalism, stypg.
    What is? What I tell them?

    What, I should just shut up and see them dig themselves holes?


    Btw, when I said women, I didn't mean women I date. I mean my friends.

  6. #6
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    What is? What I tell them?

    What, I should just shut up and see them dig themselves holes?


    Btw, when I said women, I didn't mean women I date. I mean my friends.
    The attitude that they are little girls who need your help to "incite the sense that they need to be independent thinkers."
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  7. #7
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    The attitude that they are little girls who need your help to "incite the sense that they need to be independent thinkers."
    Oh how presumptuous of me. I realize now how contemptuous I am.....


    Ivy I'm not a brick. I know when to speak and when to shut up. If they act like little girls, grow stupid dependencies (not to mention daddy issues) what kind of friend would I be if I just sat there watching all of it?

    It just sickens me to see people taken advantage of. Paternalism? It's not as if I have any control over them. I just offer advice.

  8. #8
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    I'm not saying you can't say anything. Just that you revealed a bit of a paternalistic attitude in that post. There is a difference between speaking up to offer an alternative perspective to an equal, and speaking up to "incite the sense that they need to be independent thinkers."
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  9. #9
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    This is why I often get labelled a dick by some women. I'm just as hard with them as I am with man in social interaction. I like to incite the sense that they need to be independent thinkers too, fend for themselves and take bullshit from no one.

    On the other hand, I hate nothing more than a feminist. I hate revenge mentality.
    Of course the alternative explanation is that they label you as a dick because you act like one.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    I'm not saying you can't say anything. Just that you revealed a bit of a paternalistic attitude in that post. There is a difference between speaking up to offer an alternative perspective to an equal, and speaking up to "incite the sense that they need to be independent thinkers."
    Offering a perspective to someone who is inherently in love with another perspective ("oh I know I need to be strong...but I am..." when inside you can see they are just looking for the right man that controls them in a way that makes them feel safe...and gives them the illusion of freedom....when that is not what should be striving for at all imo).....is not something I can believe works since information is out there everywhere anyway...I can't be arrogant as thinking they haven't seen it from that prism one or twice.

    What I want to do is to make them believe it really is possible, which is the problem some women face. They try to think about it, find it too hard and it only reinforces they need a strong man to depend on....it's a vicious cycle and sometimes they need a "snap out of it!" from someone whose opinion they respect (otherwise they wouldn't be my friends).

    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay
    Of course the alternative explanation is that they label you as a dick because you act like one.
    Yeah, these women tend to be Ss alright (they can't read between the lines for shit!).

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