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  1. #11
    Senior Member 2XtremeENFP's Avatar
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    This is starting to make sense.

    Ugh, I hate to stereotype, so sorry!......but some ESFPs, they kind of...don't think about consequences, and .. some can be manipulative and use others for whatever the case may be, and continue to do this for their whole life, how come their Fi doesn't keep their values/morals in check? I do agree and understand the idea of their Fi having to catch up, but once it does, then what? They feel guilty for a little while and then just forget about it go back to their old ways?

    So what I am gathering, is that since I have Ne, I can use my Fi almost hand in hand, but someone with Se is so caught in the moment that they can't even process their Fi until their life calms down and they can think about what they've done? Is it possible for them to use their Fi while in the here-and-now and not after the fact?

  2. #12
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    It's something they need to learn, much like we do, I'd say. When I'm on a Ne-trail, rattling about what I love and want to explore, I tend to forget to check to see if the people I'm ranting at are at all still with me on that convo, coz I'm so caught up by it. It makes me temporarily blind to their feelings. I'd say Se is probably even worse on that

    But experience has taught me (self-reflecting with Fi) that I need to watch out for that and not go full on Ne if I wanna not get blindsighted, so yeah, I'd say they're capable of doing the same, certainly. It just takes a looooot of repeated experiences and some intent on their part to *learn* and not just live for the kick in the moment. To pauze yourself, reign yourself in just a little bit so you don't become blind
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  3. #13
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2XtremeENFP View Post
    Im sorry if this should be posted somewhere else, but I like the way NTs explain things so If this bothers anyone since is in an NT forum, let me know and i'll move it to the NF forum or the SP forum.



    Short and simple, I want to learn the difference between how ENFPs use Fi and how ESFPs use Fi.

    Can you use your awesome NTness to explain it to me?
    I'm not NT, but I've been accused of being ENTP so I'll butt in here anyway.

    The difference is in the perception style of the two. ESFPs are more raw, guttural, more concerned with what feels right at the time, and less with abstract conceptions of right and wrong. "Seems like a good idea at the time" tends to be the deciding factor for ESFPs, as well as for their T counterparts. They're usually (but not always) more sexual, reckless, and concerned with aesthetics. ENFPs, on the other hand, are characterized for being indecisive, as well as being more spacey and fantasy-prone than their S counterparts.
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  4. #14
    Senior Member 2XtremeENFP's Avatar
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    Yeah, all of this is starting to make more sense.

    My ESFP friend isn't the manipulative/reckless stereotype that some are, she is just really about having fun and having a good time, and when she makes decisions, it seems like she's using her Se to make a decision more than her Fi, which seems out of the mbti theory, since F/T are suppose to be the decision makers.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2XtremeENFP View Post
    My friend is an ESFP, and I'm an ENFP. I use my Fi to stop me from doing things that are outside of my morals/values so it helps me make sure I make no regrets. I know me, and I know what I am comfortable with and uncomfortable with. There's no budging on either side of the line.

    My ESFP friend has no comprehension of this when I explain to her my ways. She has had identity crisises, she has had regrets, she seizes the moments with Se and no Fi. She says that she'll try things before knowing how she feels about it.

    I know how I feel about something before I try it.

    If my ESFP has Fi, she can't see it in herself. I can't see it in her either. She definitely isnt a T, and she is an ESFP. We both want to learn how she uses it and when exactly she does. How does it look in an ESFP?
    that's interesting tho..i wonder if she needs to experience it before figuring out how she feels...when we imagine the possibilities...sort of play it out ne style first.

    edit: oh nevermind...just realized you guys already said that.
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  6. #16
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2XtremeENFP View Post
    Yeah, all of this is starting to make more sense.

    My ESFP friend isn't the manipulative/reckless stereotype that some are, she is just really about having fun and having a good time, and when she makes decisions, it seems like she's using her Se to make a decision more than her Fi, which seems out of the mbti theory, since F/T are suppose to be the decision makers.
    Decisions actually use both a perception and a judgment function. She is using Fi (or possibly Te) to make decisions, but those are heavily colored how she filters and understands outside information -- her perception of it, which differs from your own. Basically, whereas Ne-Fi plays around with random possibilities about what feels right, Se-Fi just wants to get on with it. It's more action-focused.
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  7. #17
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2XtremeENFP View Post
    Exactly!! I swear, all ESFPs have Fe instead of Fi. it makes no sense
    Uhh.... no, not in the least. ESFPs are in fact pretty far from any obvious display of Fe, unless you're just thinking Fe is all about emotional outbursts. Fe is not really a spontaneous function.

    If you want mercurial displays of emotion, ESFP is the right place to start. Usually very positive and affirming and enthusiastic... until you cross their values and then BLAM, you might seem an amazing display of fireworks. Auxiliary Fe users definitely control all of their emotional displays and only let it out when appropriate; primary Fe users might do it, but it still tends to be based on failed expectations of the relationship or role the person plays in the situation and especially with ESFJ can revolve around someone failing to live up to the expectations set for them by their role in the community. ESFP usually blasts people for not treating them or someone else they way they feel they should have been treated (or given something they feel they deserved, or having their desires thwarted, etc), regardless of social role.

    In my dealings with ENFP vs ESFP, what I notice most is that ENFP is much more likely to "get me" -- we connect on the Ne thing and see lots of possibilities and ramifications in situations. Possibility thinking, that's where we connect. But if I butt heads, it's usually when their Fi gets engaged -- they start indulging in possibilities I think are irrational because they tend to focus on possibilities that reflect what they already believe, where I just use Ne to feed my Ti hopper and Ti shreds any possibility that seems irrational. With ESFP, it's far more about me just experiencing something tangible with them -- doing things together and interacting, etc, having fun.

    There's a sort of broad-scale almost spiritual aspect to NF Ne+Fi combos, whereas the Se+Fi comes off more as exuberance and just living life to the most passionate and most full. I think ESFP is much more driven emotionally by events unfolding in the surrounding environment, their mood can shift based on the mechanics of how a situation is unfolding; ENFP seems to have their moods driven more by how long-term events are unfolding, the direction things are going, what possibilities they see in the situation that are losing their opportunity to be made manifest.
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  8. #18
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    I'd say about 90% of ESFPs have Socionics Fe, but that's not quite the same thing...
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  9. #19
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    ESFPs can seem "Fe-like" to me also, although I know they are not using it much. It's just the way their Fi appears in combination with their other functions. Se, being so focused on reality and experience, will relate all Fi inner ideals to these specifics. That gives it a similar quality to Fe, as far as the feeling being focused on what is viable in the real world. Se-doms also tend to be very connected to what is "current" and that may lead ESFPs to value the current, external standards as they are most "real".

    Fi in itself is pretty conceptual, and it seems to stay in that form when paired with Ne. INFPs have been called the "ultimate idealists", as I think our Fi is shown closest to its original form, so to speak. ENFPs, of course, have that quixotic quality also.

    ISFPs still resonate very clearly as Fi-users, because their Se supports their Fi. With ESFPs, Fi supports their Se. Se has the wheel, and as previously mentioned, without adequate introspection, this can lead to some negative qualities. However, with a strong Fi to support Se, they can act on those inner ideals in practical ways that nurture and support those around them, as well as realizing their own needs/feelings beyond the moment.

    Regarding Se-doms....

    Quote Originally Posted by http://www.gesher.org/Myers-Briggs/Jung_8_types.html
    Must be balanced by introverting judgment, or it makes a shallow, wholly empirical personality, with many superstitions and no morality except collective conventions and taboos.
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  10. #20
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2XtremeENFP View Post
    My friend is an ESFP, and I'm an ENFP. I use my Fi to stop me from doing things that are outside of my morals/values so it helps me make sure I make no regrets. I know me, and I know what I am comfortable with and uncomfortable with. There's no budging on either side of the line.

    My ESFP friend has no comprehension of this when I explain to her my ways. She has had identity crisises, she has had regrets, she seizes the moments with Se and no Fi. She says that she'll try things before knowing how she feels about it.

    I know how I feel about something before I try it.

    If my ESFP has Fi, she can't see it in herself. I can't see it in her either. She definitely isnt a T, and she is an ESFP. We both want to learn how she uses it and when exactly she does. How does it look in an ESFP?
    It's sometimes used less consciously. It demonstrates itself in terms of an interest in interacting with people and a natural ability to "tune in" to their emotional state. When more consciously developed, it takes on a compassionate nature - there is a desire to help others, rather than just interact with them. ESFPs are often very kind and generous people.

    It won't have the abstract nature of Ne/Fi. More the immediate and concrete flavour of Se. It might express itself in a person's sense of style or aesthetic appreciation - those are judgments too.
    Fi doesn't make someone a paragon of virtue, btw. People find value in all sorts of different things...

    It's not like Fe in that ESFPs will happily break with convention and propriety. They will set trends, as well as follow them.
    Quote Originally Posted by 2XtremeENFP View Post
    Ugh, I hate to stereotype, so sorry!......but some ESFPs, they kind of...don't think about consequences, and .. some can be manipulative and use others for whatever the case may be, and continue to do this for their whole life, how come their Fi doesn't keep their values/morals in check?
    Err... so do some ENFPs. So do lots of other types. Some people go their whole lives without adequately developing their auxiliary - this is a bigger risk for extroverts since they can integrate pretty well into the world well using just their dominant function.
    Type development is not a given - it requires effort.
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