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  1. #21
    Black Magic Buzzard Kra's Avatar
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    In all honesty, I find it very difficult to type effective liars/deceivers.

    I don't find it hard to believe that INTX's could be this way. After all, we can be a bit on the utilitarian side.

    That said, I'm in agreement that I don't think it's very likely. Then again, I'm now back to my opening statement.
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  2. #22
    Junior Member Sioul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Well, let's just assume that he is INTP, then, rather than INTJ... and If I have to pick one, I would say INTP more than INTJ in terms of how he interacted with you.

    INTJ, I think, is far more quick to just end things that are not working, and not make excuses about it. And more likely to take care, if they want to control the situation; Te is good at managing situations, if anything, and achieving practical goals.

    Why INTP, out of the two, if I have to pick one of those?

    1. Quick to see possibilities in something and jump right in on the vision of those possibilities (i.e., dating you despite the 3-hour commute). Sounds like he was swept away on emotion, over his head.

    2. Quick to lose steam once you are not nearby, and finding a lack of commitment to hold him to the relationship. Three hours is a lot of time and a huge inconvenience for visiting; chances are you would want to get together as much as possible on the weekends, which now eats his weekends up (another inconvenience) and forces a schedule (INTP anathema)

    <put another way, for #1 and #2 -- he is REACTIVE to the situation... he's responding to visions and information in the moment, and as soon as the situation changes, he finds his interest dissipating. That's very P.>

    3. Rationally, he wouldn't see the relationship as a good use of his time if there are other women locally he could be involved with.

    4. Avoiding the "breakup" conversation. Typical INTP dodge. He doesn't know how to start it, and I would expect him to have built up some resentment against you -- after all (in HIS mind), you were the one "keeping him in the relationship" and forcing both of you to adhere to that wild schedule.. no matter how many clues he left around. He probably would have been thinking of you as the "stupid one" for not seeing how nothing was really working out and thus continuing with the relationship past sensibility... more things to hold against you, to justify his behavior later.

    5. The "clue" thing. INTP can clean up its tracks well, if it so desires -- big picture coherence helps pinpoint items that are out of place or that could trigger disclosure, but it sounds like he wasn't even trying. INTP is reactive, as I said above, and initially passive in relationships until some experience and self-identity/assertiveness is developed... and it's a very common strategy in the meanwhile to basically force other people to force the confrontation. That way, the INTP can REACT to it rather than having to initiate it. Reacting is something an INTP is good at. And this way, you become the aggressor and take the dominating/enslaver role that he has put you in, and then he can react against you and rebel. (Making a decision on his own would make him the authority figure in the argument; but he feels powerless and wouldn't know how to behave with authority.)

    Does this make sense? In an argument, he would rather sit and wait and respond to your assertions ... and then once you quit, the battle is over. If he chose to initiate things, he'd have to take the attack front, push for his point of view, and run the risk of you refusing to let him go, but in any case as the initiator, he'd have to officially beat you; here, he positioned things in a way that you were far more inclined to dump him (taking the decision off his hands) and in any case as soon as you stop pressing the issue, the relationship is over anyway; he doesn't actually have to beat you in order to win, he just has to outlast you. It's strategically quite a masterpiece stroke, even if very immature and unfair to you.

    Just my ideas, if he does happen to be an INTP. But yes, the energy drain to handle relationally conflict is immense for INTPs... partly because relationships are confusing, and they're not within the realm of the main function perspectives.
    Jennifer, I find your feedback so fascinating and thank you very much for being so genuine and honest about it. I mean i've realized that to try and truely understand and "get" where someone is coming from, you have to take into account a mixture of typology along with their history and personal experiences. Typology is just a tool that we can use to get a general feel as to why someone might be more pre disposed to react a certain way...

    with that being said, some comments from me.

    1. Quick to see possibilities in something and jump right in on the vision of those possibilities (i.e., dating you despite the 3-hour commute). Sounds like he was swept away on emotion, over his head.

    This is really how it was, when we met, it was so easy, I never had one thought of hesitation about it not working and he was so quick to show me that we would just make it work, I think he was overwhelmed with emotion, he normally is not very emotional, it is actually quite difficult to get him to even verbalize his feelings, he is definetly more of a thinker.

    2. Quick to lose steam once you are not nearby, and finding a lack of commitment to hold him to the relationship. Three hours is a lot of time and a huge inconvenience for visiting; chances are you would want to get together as much as possible on the weekends, which now eats his weekends up (another inconvenience) and forces a schedule (INTP anathema)

    This kind of sounds like this is what happend. He couldn't wait to see me in the beggining, and I think on the second date he was very quick to bring up the fact that we could weekend swap. "I'll come one weekend and you come the next weekend". Near the end though he was def not as enthused as he would have to move his "business meetings" around in order to accomodate me, it just seemed like an inconvenience to him....

    3. Rationally, he wouldn't see the relationship as a good use of his time if there are other women locally he could be involved with.

    This is the kicker, I am a male, and he is a male, surprise. What also might have had a factor in this was the fact that he was pretty new to his sexuality. In the beginning I asked him many times, "are you ok to jump into something so soon? Do you feel like you need to do some exploring?" Ofcourse he assured me that he was "not that type" and was looking for something serious, looking for a partner.

    4. Avoiding the "breakup" conversation. Typical INTP dodge. He doesn't know how to start it, and I would expect him to have built up some resentment against you -- after all (in HIS mind), you were the one "keeping him in the relationship" and forcing both of you to adhere to that wild schedule.. no matter how many clues he left around. He probably would have been thinking of you as the "stupid one" for not seeing how nothing was really working out and thus continuing with the relationship past sensibility... more things to hold against you, to justify his behavior later.

    I found this statement to be especially interesting. He does not like confrontation at all, I would always be the one to bring things up if I felt like there was something seriuos that needed to be addressed, he was like you say very reactionary. I can see truth behind him resenting me for wanting to "keep him in the relationship" except again, I was the one that would constantly check in to see if we were ok and if things were moving to fast, he told me that he would always be honest with me with regards to how things felt, and that he "hated cheaters", because he'd "rather just break up with someone" as opposed to cheating.

    5. The "clue" thing. INTP can clean up its tracks well, if it so desires -- big picture coherence helps pinpoint items that are out of place or that could trigger disclosure, but it sounds like he wasn't even trying. INTP is reactive, as I said above, and initially passive in relationships until some experience and self-identity/assertiveness is developed... and it's a very common strategy in the meanwhile to basically force other people to force the confrontation. That way, the INTP can REACT to it rather than having to initiate it. Reacting is something an INTP is good at. And this way, you become the aggressor and take the dominating/enslaver role that he has put you in, and then he can react against you and rebel. (Making a decision on his own would make him the authority figure in the argument; but he feels powerless and wouldn't know how to behave with authority.)

    This was my Eureka moment. As I said before, he hates confronation. HAtes hates hate hates it. He was extremely smooth with his words and could talk his way out of any situation...A few times when I asked him about some funny bussiness, the answers that I received seemed a little bit off, but he was so smooth in his delivery that I couldn't help but want to believe him. I mean maybe thinking back, I was trying so hard to want to see that he was a good person that I gave him a bit to much trust. As an ENFP, my Ne is my most powerful trait, I am very instinctual and my gut is 99% of the time always correct.

    So this makes alot of sense, because when we had our final blow out, when I had presented him with all the very obvious evidence (physical letters...etc) he just said that I pushed him into that, and the second I raised my voice, he said that because I raised my voice he felt like he no longer needed to even have a discussion with me, and kicked me out of his apartment.

    I am pretty sure he is an INTP. He's very introverted, always the observer during conversations. My friends all was so amazed at how quiet he seemed, because I am so the opposite, but I was the only one who saw how goofy and animated he actually could be, when it was just me and him. From an N/S standpoint, def an N, very big picture orientated and could care less about details. He also talked alot about what he wanted to do with his career and about retiring a long way into the future. Its obvious he was a T, he was not expressive at all with his feelings, I'd have to dig it out, and he never would say things like I feel, and sometimes I found him cold in how he interacted to other people (ie. rude to cab driver, I would never talk down to a cab driver?!?)

    it was the P/J thing I couldn't quite figure out. His place always seemed very clean, tidy, but there were little piles of things that would amount on his desk. He seemed very planned with his actions in the beggining, but as I got to know him I noticed how often he would just change his mind and decide on the whim what to do....

    Thanks again for all your comments everyone As an ENFP, this was a fairly traumatic experience for me, I obviously know that this is not someone I want to be with or have in my life, this was not the right type of person for me, but the NF part of me just felt like I needed to try and understand what drove him to this you know? Because a part of me started to blame myself.

  3. #23
    Consulting Detective Mr. Sherlock Holmes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sioul View Post
    Jennifer, I find your feedback so fascinating and thank you very much for being so genuine and honest about it. I mean i've realized that to try and truely understand and "get" where someone is coming from, you have to take into account a mixture of typology along with their history and personal experiences. Typology is just a tool that we can use to get a general feel as to why someone might be more pre disposed to react a certain way...

    with that being said, some comments from me.

    1. Quick to see possibilities in something and jump right in on the vision of those possibilities (i.e., dating you despite the 3-hour commute). Sounds like he was swept away on emotion, over his head.

    This is really how it was, when we met, it was so easy, I never had one thought of hesitation about it not working and he was so quick to show me that we would just make it work, I think he was overwhelmed with emotion, he normally is not very emotional, it is actually quite difficult to get him to even verbalize his feelings, he is definetly more of a thinker.

    2. Quick to lose steam once you are not nearby, and finding a lack of commitment to hold him to the relationship. Three hours is a lot of time and a huge inconvenience for visiting; chances are you would want to get together as much as possible on the weekends, which now eats his weekends up (another inconvenience) and forces a schedule (INTP anathema)

    This kind of sounds like this is what happend. He couldn't wait to see me in the beggining, and I think on the second date he was very quick to bring up the fact that we could weekend swap. "I'll come one weekend and you come the next weekend". Near the end though he was def not as enthused as he would have to move his "business meetings" around in order to accomodate me, it just seemed like an inconvenience to him....

    3. Rationally, he wouldn't see the relationship as a good use of his time if there are other women locally he could be involved with.

    This is the kicker, I am a male, and he is a male, surprise. What also might have had a factor in this was the fact that he was pretty new to his sexuality. In the beginning I asked him many times, "are you ok to jump into something so soon? Do you feel like you need to do some exploring?" Ofcourse he assured me that he was "not that type" and was looking for something serious, looking for a partner.

    4. Avoiding the "breakup" conversation. Typical INTP dodge. He doesn't know how to start it, and I would expect him to have built up some resentment against you -- after all (in HIS mind), you were the one "keeping him in the relationship" and forcing both of you to adhere to that wild schedule.. no matter how many clues he left around. He probably would have been thinking of you as the "stupid one" for not seeing how nothing was really working out and thus continuing with the relationship past sensibility... more things to hold against you, to justify his behavior later.

    I found this statement to be especially interesting. He does not like confrontation at all, I would always be the one to bring things up if I felt like there was something seriuos that needed to be addressed, he was like you say very reactionary. I can see truth behind him resenting me for wanting to "keep him in the relationship" except again, I was the one that would constantly check in to see if we were ok and if things were moving to fast, he told me that he would always be honest with me with regards to how things felt, and that he "hated cheaters", because he'd "rather just break up with someone" as opposed to cheating.

    5. The "clue" thing. INTP can clean up its tracks well, if it so desires -- big picture coherence helps pinpoint items that are out of place or that could trigger disclosure, but it sounds like he wasn't even trying. INTP is reactive, as I said above, and initially passive in relationships until some experience and self-identity/assertiveness is developed... and it's a very common strategy in the meanwhile to basically force other people to force the confrontation. That way, the INTP can REACT to it rather than having to initiate it. Reacting is something an INTP is good at. And this way, you become the aggressor and take the dominating/enslaver role that he has put you in, and then he can react against you and rebel. (Making a decision on his own would make him the authority figure in the argument; but he feels powerless and wouldn't know how to behave with authority.)

    This was my Eureka moment. As I said before, he hates confronation. HAtes hates hate hates it. He was extremely smooth with his words and could talk his way out of any situation...A few times when I asked him about some funny bussiness, the answers that I received seemed a little bit off, but he was so smooth in his delivery that I couldn't help but want to believe him. I mean maybe thinking back, I was trying so hard to want to see that he was a good person that I gave him a bit to much trust. As an ENFP, my Ne is my most powerful trait, I am very instinctual and my gut is 99% of the time always correct.

    So this makes alot of sense, because when we had our final blow out, when I had presented him with all the very obvious evidence (physical letters...etc) he just said that I pushed him into that, and the second I raised my voice, he said that because I raised my voice he felt like he no longer needed to even have a discussion with me, and kicked me out of his apartment.

    I am pretty sure he is an INTP. He's very introverted, always the observer during conversations. My friends all was so amazed at how quiet he seemed, because I am so the opposite, but I was the only one who saw how goofy and animated he actually could be, when it was just me and him. From an N/S standpoint, def an N, very big picture orientated and could care less about details. He also talked alot about what he wanted to do with his career and about retiring a long way into the future. Its obvious he was a T, he was not expressive at all with his feelings, I'd have to dig it out, and he never would say things like I feel, and sometimes I found him cold in how he interacted to other people (ie. rude to cab driver, I would never talk down to a cab driver?!?)

    it was the P/J thing I couldn't quite figure out. His place always seemed very clean, tidy, but there were little piles of things that would amount on his desk. He seemed very planned with his actions in the beggining, but as I got to know him I noticed how often he would just change his mind and decide on the whim what to do....

    Thanks again for all your comments everyone As an ENFP, this was a fairly traumatic experience for me, I obviously know that this is not someone I want to be with or have in my life, this was not the right type of person for me, but the NF part of me just felt like I needed to try and understand what drove him to this you know? Because a part of me started to blame myself.
    Yeah, after reading your explanation, you're probably right abouot him being INTP. Being unfamiliar with his sexuality could be a more plausable reason as to why he would put so much energy into dating several people. He could just be seeing it as a sort of rational experiment, trying everything and seeing what it is like.
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  4. #24
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrsherlockholmes View Post
    Yeah, after reading your explanation, you're probably right abouot him being INTP. Being unfamiliar with his sexuality could be a more plausable reason as to why he would put so much energy into dating several people. He could just be seeing it as a sort of rational experiment, trying everything and seeing what it is like.
    Yup. Gay community dynamics seem to me to be a bit different too, so that part was throwing me off a bit. (I'd explain more on that, but it's still an amorphous "intuition" and I can't articulate the differences clearly right this moment.)

    J/P can be weird. Some INTPs actually are minimalists and don't collect clutter. My INTP son doesn't dress crisply at all (he's a t-shirt guy) but is the cleanest/organized of my three kids (which includes an ESFP and an INFJ). I consider it a more utilitarian approach rather than "needing organization" to reduce anxiety; he just doesn't want stuff in his way and/or wants to know where to find things so as not to look for them.

    maybe more later, i have some meetings to attend...
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  5. #25
    Junior Member Sioul's Avatar
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    Ya I guess I should have mentioned it was a gay relationship, I think I knew in the back of my head that this would help fill in some of the missing pieces of the puzzle.

    I guess I wasn't sure how progressive this board was? haha. Sometimes I feel like in the gay community, everyone is so on edge that everything seems to be personified....and this definetly will have an effect on Typology.

  6. #26
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sioul View Post
    I guess I wasn't sure how progressive this board was? haha.
    Fairly progressive.... more in favor/open to gay rights/marriage than against (I think), but we have some pretty intense arguments sometimes over gay marriage and similar political topics.

    Sometimes I feel like in the gay community, everyone is so on edge that everything seems to be personified....and this definetly will have an effect on Typology.
    That's somewhat what I'm feeling, based on my experience with that community. Everything's accentuated.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  7. #27
    Consulting Detective Mr. Sherlock Holmes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sioul View Post
    Ya I guess I should have mentioned it was a gay relationship, I think I knew in the back of my head that this would help fill in some of the missing pieces of the puzzle.

    I guess I wasn't sure how progressive this board was? haha. Sometimes I feel like in the gay community, everyone is so on edge that everything seems to be personified....and this definetly will have an effect on Typology.
    We're the NT board. We're always open.

    That should be a catchphrase...
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  8. #28
    Senior Member Trentham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrsherlockholmes View Post
    We're the NT board. We're always open.

    That should be a catchphrase...
    The Js might not like that...
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  9. #29
    Consulting Detective Mr. Sherlock Holmes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trentham View Post
    The Js might not like that...
    Perhaps not.
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    "It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."

  10. #30
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sioul View Post
    Long story short, I ended up finding out that he was very dishonest with me and also seeing many different people on the side, after we had talked about being monogomous and exlusive...
    If only you had not talked about it...

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