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  1. #21
    Alexander the Terrible yenom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge View Post
    ... and the cure is?
    There is no cure.

    However, I believe a person is not born with low self-esteem. It could most likely be the result of negative childhood experiences and abusive parenting.
    The only way out of this is to believe and trust in yourself and increase your own competence.

    Negative self-esteem can be like a cancer that consumes you from within.
    The fear of poverty turns people into slaves of money.

    "In this Caesar there are many Mariuses"~Sulla

    Conquer your inner demons first before you conquer the world.

  2. #22
    Member metasapiens's Avatar
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    -----------------> courage <----------------------------------------

    P <--- RTPC* ---- RTAC** ---I-- RTUC*** -- NRAA**** --> J


    * resistance to pleasant certainties
    ** resistance to all certainties
    *** resistance to unpleasant certainties
    **** no resistance at all ...

  3. #23
    Aquaria mrcockburn's Avatar
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    I think it's a Ti-first thing. They're scrutinizing, analyzing and comparing everything, even themselves. So they're not going to blindly believe that they're teh B3ST just because mommy said so.
    3w4-9w1-?w6 (nearly headless nick)
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    http://sundrytimes.files.wordpress.c...tomic-bomb.jpg


  4. #24
    Senior Member guesswho's Avatar
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    Ti and building self esteem.

    You question if you are actually building it.
    You try to see the patterns that lowered your self esteem, and the effects of a lowered self esteem on a behavioral level.
    You're pissed you can't measure it, and that it's not an entirely conscious process. You're pissed you don't understand your subconscious.
    You're pissed because you question it.
    And then you get pissed because you got pissed while questioning it.

    Then you're glad you build it.

    And move on, while still questioning it sometimes.

    Conclusion:
    Is my Ti slightly obsessive, or is Ti generally obsessive, when it comes to rationally understanding things. Such as my self esteem.

  5. #25
    Superwoman Red Herring's Avatar
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    Hell yeah to getting pissed because the self image is - by definition - subjective.

    Once you are familiar with certain psychological concepts and methods you can spend the rest of your life analyzing what goes on inside to the point where you can´t give a straight answer to the question "how does that make you feel?" because every emotional impulse has to pass through a psychoanalytical filter (at least in my case, but then again I´m the daughter of a shrink). And when you start to see how and when you are deluding yourself, you definitely reach the point where there is not single trustworthy source of information left. But it goes against INTP nature to say "screw objectivity!". So that can lead to frustration.

    I´m definitely not a martyr. But since I don´t place a very high value on myself and tend to see problems under the aspect of the greatest good for the greatest number rather than how to get the most out of it for myself, I often make decisions that don´t benefit me. If that becomes a habit, you fortify the idea that you don´t count much.
    In the immortal words of Rick Blaine, "I'm no good at being noble, but it doesn't take much to see that the problems of three little people don't amount to a hill of beans in this crazy world." Make that "one little person"!
    The good life is one inspired by love and guided by knowledge. Neither love without knowledge, nor knowledge without love can produce a good life. - Bertrand Russell
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  6. #26
    Senior Member guesswho's Avatar
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    The same principle can be applied when you compare the hill of beans in this crazy world to the entire universe.

    Contrast.

    Anything can seem less when compared to something bigger. And things don't get bigger than the universe. Or do they? The universe is expanding so it may look like a bubble with us inside of it. There can be plenty of things outside the universe can they? And so you can compare the universe to the things that may be outside. And you would get the same result?

    So is there a limit?

    Ti again lol.

  7. #27
    Junior Member Blutter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecttcelfeR View Post
    I often wish that I could live with monks. Not become one, but just enjoy the COMPLETE silence, besides the amazing chanting, all the time. It just makes me feel warm inside. I'd say the completeness of analysis of everything is most definitly what causes my depression. I don't leave any stone unturned even if it has been turned a million times because something could be different this time around.

    I totally get that. I so desperately want to be a nun, sometimes, but then I remind myself that there are fucked up hierarchies and superiors to be obeyed everywhere, and I get over it..

    Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but the reason why a lot of INTPs have low self esteem is simple: self-esteem is basically a mechanism that makes sure each individual serves the well being of the species, ultimately - in other words, your self-esteem is tightly linked to your usefulness to society, as well as the feedback you get from others with regards to your desirability-as a friend, neighbor, mate etc.

    So, it's easy to see why INTPs are prone to suffer from low self-esteem, since they are stubbornly fixed on mapping the world in their heads, from an objective, "outsider"'s perspective, having no regard for their own humanity and emotional needs, which, whether we like it or not, are identical to the average person's emotional needs-need for respect, affection, and ultimately, affirmation and acceptance, all of which are much more difficult to attain by the typical INTP.

    Now, am I right, or am I right?

  8. #28
    Senior Member guesswho's Avatar
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    INTPs contribute much more to the evolution of the species, therefor to the well being of the species. They just don't contribute to the little things.

    If you lived in a society of intellectuals you would surely feel useful, connected, and would receive a lot of feedback. But that's just utopic.

    The little things matter in the end, although I see no usefulness in doing them.

  9. #29
    Junior Member Blutter's Avatar
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    well, the "little things" do matter because they have direct influence over physical well being.

    I think INTPs and all other NPs probably make the least contributions to material progress, and that's where it comes from..of course, it's not always the case. There are those who are happily involved in their dream careers..

    Anyway, low self-esteem usually comes from not feeling appreciated, or being constantly criticized for just being yourself. I know I've felt those stings over and over again. Ever since I was a little girl, my parents would tell me I am not going anywhere with my "disorganized" style-by which they usually implied my unwillingness to commit to housework of any kind, and that no man will want me for a wife, because I am so chaotic, and my room is always a mess...and I say now what I said back then-who cares?

  10. #30
    Senior Member Mephistopheles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I would not say that it's because "other type are superior," because in many ways INTP assumes that its rational process is superior to other methods of thinking/decision-making, and also often views itself as "smarter than others" and takes pride in that.

    When an INTP has low self-esteem, it probably results from some combination of these:
    1. INTP deconstructs everything, including itself.
    2. INTP dismisses assumptions, wanting to rely only on rational conclusions. But self-esteem is built on an internalized assumption about one's value.
    3. INTP (at least originally) dismisses "feeling states" as irrelevant to truth/meaning, so one's feelings about oneself are also considered irrelevant.
    4. INTP's strengths often leave it in the position of feeling out of place in society and human community -- its "rational truths" can be disruptive and meanwhile there is little intuitive sense at first of how people relate (since people typically get reduced to machines/constructs) -- and this impedes one's life success and progress. It can be extremely demoralizing to watch a majority of people who one finds vapid and shallow in many ways succeed using what is seen as inferior thinking/methods and realizing that one can never be like them nor want to be... and yet not succeed as oneself either. INTP adaptability leads many to start flexing to society's opinion and wondering if indeed it is a failure and waste of human space.

    In any case, a lot of identity and self-esteem comes from assumptions about one's value and self, but INTP constantly wants to "step outside and scrutinize" oneself... and deconstructing self is not a pathway that really leads to self-esteem, it just tends to eradicate self by reducing it to a quantitative equation.
    Lol, I'm doing everything you said there and in fact often having issues with my self-esteem. Still, I just can't stop because it's - in my opinion - just the most logical approach.

    For me, one of the most irritating things is that many people around me are reminding me all the time how fucking intelligent I have to be to know this and that, to be able to make such conclusions etc. and generally having high expectations of me, but I'm having rather average grades and I'm aware of my - many - flaws all the time. It's kinda depressing to just not match to what other thinks one is (or should be).

    But my parents are really good ones, though due to their traits - I would guess ESTJ and ESFJ - they often have values completely different from mine.

    I hope that this somehow helps the OP a bit, though my Ne is also very strong, so I'm a half ENTP^^ Also, the issues aren't thaaat bad.

    @Blutter: I'm somehow happy to be a guy because for us it's considered more "normal" to be messy and not be interested in housework, though my parents constantly are mocking about it all the time.^^

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