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  1. #31
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    I dunno sometimes
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  2. #32
    (blankpages) Xenon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    A lot of my problems with tests in general is that functional descriptions get simplified in order to get them testable in the first place. I'm looking through a cog processes test now, and I see Fi descriptions that a lot of Ti users will identify with simply because they're describing judgments based on subjective criteria, but they're not distinguishing between the impersonal or personal nature of that criteria, which is the only difference between Ti and Fi.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevo View Post
    It seems to me that most Ti doms will naturally score higher on Fi on these function tests because a lot of Fi "traits" as tested by these tests are really also applicable to Ti attitudes. Most Ti doms have well thought-out principles and standards they take pride in that they can be very clear in expressing and very rigid in defending. This, on most function attitude tests, shows up as Fi, even though the conclusions themselves were arrived at through Ti. Therefore the Fi score can become rather inflated.
    really are inside.
    Yep, I agree. I used to score very high in Fi on those tests as well (sometimes getting typed as INFP) and concluded I had "high Fi". But lately after learning more about Fi I've been doubting it, and reading that 'When Fe and Fi go awry' thread in the NF section confirmed that I don't. There are some excellent descriptions of what Fi is and what it feels like (particularly from OrangeAppled and PeaceBaby), and it became clear to me then that I don't really relate. If anyone's unclear about the differences between the four judging functions, I recommend skimming through that thread. Ti and Te are discussed as well.

    I don't believe there's any particular ranking of function strengths always found in each type though. It varies a lot. If you're Ti dominant and prefer Ne to Se, you're INTP as far as I'm concerned. I think the roles the functions play are more predictable (tertiary as a 'relief function', etc).

  3. #33
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post

    I think Beebe is wrong and Thomson is right.

    Beyond that, I think circumstances can push one to develop functions which are not a natural strength in an atypical order. That's what happened to me, aar.
    That's right, she's got her double agents with their phasers set to stun, ready to beam me up to the mothership. That book was nearly impossible to get through for me. I've never read Beebe though, though if he's the senex/demon guy then I think he's full of shit too.

    You're right about the last bit though, which I didn't take into account in my previous statement. Probably should have said "most" but that's almost a cop out.

    I'm interested though, in how you manage the dissonance. How do you determine which function gets to decide?

  4. #34
    Senior Member animenagai's Avatar
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    I'm fine with you being an INTP with high Fi. At the end of the day, I believe that your functions can be strengthened/weakened. Would anyone really be here for the sake of self improvement if this isn't true?
    Chimera of Filth

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  5. #35
    Consulting Detective Mr. Sherlock Holmes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by animenagai View Post
    Would anyone really be here for the sake of self improvement if this isn't true?
    I'm mostly here out of boredom and because I enjoy psychological analysis.

  6. #36
    Senior Member animenagai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrsherlockholmes View Post
    I'm mostly here out of boredom and because I enjoy psychological analysis.
    No I understand that and I'm sure a lot of people come here for exactly those reasons. But I mean really, say if you're socially awkward and you wanted to work on your Fe. You start going out with friends more, maybe try to get in on more on the conversations, whatever, you successfully develop a function. I don't see why you couldn't eventually have a stronger Fi than your Fe say, as long as your situations allow you to do that. I seriously doubt that your type would change or anything once that happens, even if this goes against classical MBTI theory. I just don't understand why people are so insistent on justifying the original theory when cases like these obviously point the other way.
    Chimera of Filth

    A gruesome beast with dripping flesh
    Clings to me as a sick fixture
    My throbbing heart it gnawed apart
    It stalks and hunts me through mirrors

  7. #37
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    well there are a few scenarios in this:

    Either, as other people say, you associate Fi answers to Ti behavior or Ti answers to Fi behavior. Which in the later would mean that INFP might be the better personality type for you than INTP. (I did see your video and then saw this thread. So the above is something that I think you should consider)

    The second scenario, which I think fits my test results in which I also got a high Fi score. This is the idea that what you attribute as Fi is really internalized and polluted Fe. This kind Fe can quickly be misunderstood as Fi because Ti rules as the dominant. When I personally think I scored high on Fi it is mainly because I relate to emotions through Ti and therefore when I see questions as described in other posts thinks that this is what I do. Personally after Ive done some thinking about the above I have come to the conclusion that I actually do a lot of Fe related behavior, much more than Fi behavior in real life. And if I was to put up my first 4 functions I would definately put Fe above Si, so it would be Ti, Ne, Fe Si. I use a lot of Fe to work out the social things in my life and I personally react more in a Fe manner to situations than Fi.

    The third scenario is that you have an atypical personality. As many people theorize. Not something I agree on other than in people that have been either understimulated or where raised in highly abusive families. Then it makes sense that you could have developed in a way where some functions where needed to be developed to survive in said enviroment.

    The fourth is that this test is only accurate at describing your first and second function. Which is something I see in a lot of the test results here. That means that these tests only accurately and succesfully can help you determine what, in an introverts case would be the persons dominant Xi and secondary Xe functions. And that all other scores should be taken with caution and not as accurate descriptors of your mental processes.

    The fifth is that you have a personality disorder or is an amoebe. Because if you look at your functions Ti and Fi is higher than all others. And if one was to say these are the leading functions you would be seriously fucked up in real life, because one needs both an introverted and extroverted function to develope and cognitive work through ideas, sensory input and so on.

    Personally I think you might need to look at the first scenario. Particularly look at this link. Ti and Fi Differences | Type Insights

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by slowriot View Post
    well there are a few scenarios in this:

    Either, as other people say, you associate Fi answers to Ti behavior or Ti answers to Fi behavior. Which in the later would mean that INFP might be the better personality type for you than INTP. (I did see your video and then saw this thread. So the above is something that I think you should consider)

    The second scenario, which I think fits my test results in which I also got a high Fi score. This is the idea that what you attribute as Fi is really internalized and polluted Fe. This kind Fe can quickly be misunderstood as Fi because Ti rules as the dominant. When I personally think I scored high on Fi it is mainly because I relate to emotions through Ti and therefore when I see questions as described in other posts thinks that this is what I do. Personally after Ive done some thinking about the above I have come to the conclusion that I actually do a lot of Fe related behavior, much more than Fi behavior in real life. And if I was to put up my first 4 functions I would definately put Fe above Si, so it would be Ti, Ne, Fe Si. I use a lot of Fe to work out the social things in my life and I personally react more in a Fe manner to situations than Fi.

    The third scenario is that you have an atypical personality. As many people theorize. Not something I agree on other than in people that have been either understimulated or where raised in highly abusive families. Then it makes sense that you could have developed in a way where some functions where needed to be developed to survive in said enviroment.

    The fourth is that this test is only accurate at describing your first and second function. Which is something I see in a lot of the test results here. That means that these tests only accurately and succesfully can help you determine what, in an introverts case would be the persons dominant Xi and secondary Xe functions. And that all other scores should be taken with caution and not as accurate descriptors of your mental processes.

    The fifth is that you have a personality disorder or is an amoebe. Because if you look at your functions Ti and Fi is higher than all others. And if one was to say these are the leading functions you would be seriously fucked up in real life, because one needs both an introverted and extroverted function to develope and cognitive work through ideas, sensory input and so on.

    Personally I think you might need to look at the first scenario. Particularly look at this link. Ti and Fi Differences | Type Insights
    I can totally see how I come off as INFP in the video! However, I'm pretty confident that I am a T. In that video I was often thinking of things I hadn't said that I should have moments after getting done with them, a lot of which would have shown more of my T side. I just think really slowly in the spotlight (yes I know nobody was watching when I recorded it, it's just a weird state). I would say many of my T traits are my interest in logical patterns and areas of study, my need for logical correctness and my desire for knowledge and understanding. You can tell I am a T next to my ISFP friend particularly. I am (usually) calm and logical, intricately critical and often get caught up on points of logical accuracy. I always make sure I observe things from different perspectives and try to come to an objective conclusion. It's true I value friendship a great deal and have strong values, but these I usually arrive at logically (eg. I have a distaste for religion, particularly organised religion because it has no empirical supporting evidence and it causes a lot of people to stop thinking for themselves and to follow a set of ideas already laid down for them, which may cause problems a lot of the time). So in short, I have considered INFP but I don't think I am. I've looked at the profiles and I fit better with INTP.
    JiNe
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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrsherlockholmes View Post
    I can totally see how I come off as INFP in the video! However, I'm pretty confident that I am a T. In that video I was often thinking of things I hadn't said that I should have moments after getting done with them, a lot of which would have shown more of my T side. I just think really slowly in the spotlight (yes I know nobody was watching when I recorded it, it's just a weird state). I would say many of my T traits are my interest in logical patterns and areas of study, my need for logical correctness and my desire for knowledge and understanding. You can tell I am a T next to my ISFP friend particularly. I am (usually) calm and logical, intricately critical and often get caught up on points of logical accuracy. I always make sure I observe things from different perspectives and try to come to an objective conclusion. It's true I value friendship a great deal and have strong values, but these I usually arrive at logically (eg. I have a distaste for religion, particularly organised religion because it has no empirical supporting evidence and it causes a lot of people to stop thinking for themselves and to follow a set of ideas already laid down for them, which may cause problems a lot of the time). So in short, I have considered INFP but I don't think I am. I've looked at the profiles and I fit better with INTP.
    Okay, well in the video I could see some similarities in mannerism as I recall myself at your age. You seem very young and the differences between the INXP types seem really hard to distinguish at that time. Not to say you are not INTP, I cant really know, so I wont disagree

  10. #40
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    I'll compare the two types.

    INTPs live in the world of theoretical possibilities. They see everything in terms of how it could be improved, or what it could be turned into. They live primarily inside their own minds, having the ability to analyze difficult problems, identify patterns, and come up with logical explanations. They seek clarity in everything, and are therefore driven to build knowledge. They are the "absent-minded professors", who highly value intelligence and the ability to apply logic to theories to find solutions. They typically are so strongly driven to turn problems into logical explanations, that they live much of their lives within their own heads, and may not place as much importance or value on the external world. Their natural drive to turn theories into concrete understanding may turn into a feeling of personal responsibility to solve theoretical problems, and help society move towards a higher understanding.

    INTPs value knowledge above all else. (well it's highly values, but not above ALL else I don't think) Their minds are constantly working to generate new theories, or to prove or disprove existing theories. They approach problems and theories with enthusiasm and skepticism, ignoring existing rules and opinions and defining their own approach to the resolution. They seek patterns and logical explanations for anything that interests them. They're usually extremely bright, and able to be objectively critical in their analysis. They love new ideas, and become very excited over abstractions and theories. They love to discuss these concepts with others. They may seem "dreamy" and distant to others, because they spend a lot of time inside their minds musing over theories. They hate to work on routine things - they would much prefer to build complex theoretical solutions, and leave the implementation of the system to others. They are intensely interested in theory, and will put forth tremendous amounts of time and energy into finding a solution to a problem with has piqued their interest.

    INTPs do not like to lead or control people. They're very tolerant and flexible in most situations, unless one of their firmly held beliefs has been violated or challenged, in which case they may take a very rigid stance. The INTP is likely to be very shy when it comes to meeting new people. On the other hand, the INTP is very self-confident and gregarious around people they know well, or when discussing theories which they fully understand.

    The INTP has no understanding or value for decisions made on the basis of personal subjectivity or feelings.
    (not NO understanding, though I do prefer to look at things rationally when they are rationally based topics) They strive constantly to achieve logical conclusions to problems, and don't understand the importance or relevance of applying subjective emotional considerations to decisions (very much). For this reason, INTPs are usually not in-tune with how people are feeling, and are not naturally well-equiped to meet the emotional needs of others.

    The INTP may have a problem with self-aggrandizement and social rebellion, which will interfere with their creative potential. Since their Feeling side is their least developed trait, the INTP may have difficulty giving the warmth and support that is sometimes necessary in intimate relationships. If the INTP doesn't realize the value of attending to other people's feelings (I realise the value, though am not always able to recognise it and sometimes think the situation requires more objective criticism where the other person may disagree), he or she may become overly critical and sarcastic with others. If the INTP is not able to find a place for themself which supports the use of their strongest abilities, they may become generally negative and cynical (happened sometimes). If the INTP has not developed their Sensing side sufficiently, they may become unaware of their environment, and exhibit weakness in performing maintenance-type tasks, such as bill-paying and dressing appropriately.

    For the INTP, it is extremely important that ideas and facts are expressed correctly and succinctly. They are likely to express themselves in what they believe to be absolute truths. Sometimes, their well thought-out understanding of an idea is not easily understandable by others, but the INTP is not naturally likely to tailor the truth so as to explain it in an understandable way to others. The INTP may be prone to abandoning a project once they have figured it out, moving on to the next thing. It's important that the INTP place importance on expressing their developed theories in understandable ways. In the end, an amazing discovery means nothing if you are the only person who understands it.

    The INTP is usually very independent, unconventional, and original. They are not likely to place much value on traditional goals such as popularity and security. They usually have complex characters, and may tend to be restless and temperamental. They are strongly ingenious, and have unconventional thought patterns which allows them to analyze ideas in new ways. Consequently, a lot of scientific breakthroughs in the world have been made by the INTP.

    The INTP is at his best when he can work on his theories independently. When given an environment which supports his creative genius and possible eccentricity, the INTP can accomplish truly remarkable things. These are the pioneers of new thoughts in our society.
    I'll do INFP in a minute.
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    "It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."

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