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  1. #1
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    Default Settling into, and living happily in a hostile environment.

    Alright,

    I am extremely critical, especially of work quality while I'm on the job. Well, ok, I'm not really critical. And I've found that I don't really give a shit. But others think that I do give a shit, and that I'm very critical. If you've ever heard an INTP bitch, then you know us being seen as critical/cold/etc isn't anything groundbreaking or new. And, myself, after having done it for a while (complain about my actions/approach being misinterpreted) am now ready to accept that this shit is the way it is. With that said, I'm trying to learn how to exist, and be at peace, even amidst this bullshit from others.

    Any ideas?

    Its weird. I know that I don't want to change into being a smiley, cheerful person that doesn't tell it like it is, because I tried that once, and being stepped on sucked more than being misunderstood. Also, there were a crapload of people who had a score to settle and they just kinda went nuts.

    I'm not innocent! Lol. I'm usually not out to get under someone's skin, but every once in a while I find myself under there, and I'm like, "fucking right.. eat that shit, you sorry ass motherf---." It feels pretty good. Whatever.

    Now, I gave one example of changing myself, and not liking the outcome. There are quite a few. But my conclusion was pretty much that this is who I am for the rest of my life. A scrawny, nerdy-looking, soft-spoken, awkward programmer type. Wait, no.. outspoken, arrogant, abrasive, and cold menace to society.

    I'm feeling really weird. Like I'm having a nervous breakdown. But anyway.. who I am I personally think is pretty cool. Others tend to disagree. When they feel offended their retaliation is pretty brutal. I often wonder if I should get into a war, and I usually don't, citing "I'm not trying to insult anyone, I'm minding my own business," but then the thrusts keep connecting with my left side, and I end up having a group, feeling victorious, smiling and grining right up to my face. So, I'm not trying to insult anyone, but then these jabs, when I don't respond to them, and the grins of these idiots after, get to me.. and I start thinking: WTF am I doing?

    So what do I do? Fight with fire, or take it like a man? Smile like an idiot?

    I might be a control freak. I don't like bossing people around, but I feel myself wanting and aiming to have one over everyone whenever THEY try to tell me what to do, or whenever they begin to become manipulative around me. I like being the best in the group, and I don't care if anyone else knows that I'm the best, as long as I'm sure that I am. Maybe they can see it on my face? I think I'm better than them. Maybe I don't have to run around and rub it in for people to try to cut me down.

    I hate it when people try to cut me down. It just infuriates me, and then I also get the sense that I have something to prove. So I start rubbing it in, half-assed, and like an amateur, then I start seeing it: this shit is real.

    After seeing it all, and living with it, I'm now, more than ever, not really wanting to go out of my way to address anyone's bullshit. I'm ready to accept the jabs and the cheap shots, and the sucker punches, and I'm ready to fight battles as necessary. But I how do I remain at peace?

    Straight up, I've seen some E_TJ assholes blast their way up the corporate ladder (or wherever they are trying to go), not looking to even have broken a sweat. So I'm wondering what I'm missing here. They are assholes, they are seen as assholes, they boss people around, they are usually aggressive, and more often than not, no one can touch them. Cheap shots and jabs bounce off, and like clockwork, the ENTJ strikes back and shuts up the idiot that dared. They saw it coming. How do they do that? ENTJs, how do you do that? How do you deal? What am I doing wrong?

    Advice?

  2. #2
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mysavior View Post
    Its weird. I know that I don't want to change into being a smiley, cheerful person that doesn't tell it like it is, because I tried that once, and being stepped on sucked more than being misunderstood. Also, there were a crapload of people who had a score to settle and they just kinda went nuts.
    Yes, I've found that it is much more enjoyable and comfortable to be an asshole than fake cheerful. I used to try to appear nice and then people would just say, "You look like you're always making fun of people in your head," so I gave up. The trick is to tease people in a nice way. That way when you really say something degrading they don't flip shit.

    I'm not innocent! Lol. I'm usually not out to get under someone's skin, but every once in a while I find myself under there, and I'm like, "fucking right.. eat that shit, you sorry ass motherf---." It feels pretty good. Whatever.
    Lol,

    I laughed out loud at this part.

    Now, I gave one example of changing myself, and not liking the outcome. There are quite a few. But my conclusion was pretty much that this is who I am for the rest of my life. A scrawny, nerdy-looking, soft-spoken, awkward programmer type. Wait, no.. outspoken, arrogant, abrasive, and cold menace to society.
    Don't ever think that you can't change. Because if you do, you'll be wrong.

    Just remember not to be a total dick for the hell of it. Treat people with at least some measure of respect if you want it back, in turn. Don't let people walk on you and you'll be fine.
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by mysavior View Post
    <Angry rant that could have come from me.>
    LOL. I wrote something with almost the same sentiments in my journal a couple of years ago.

    I seem to randomly shift, between anger at myself(guilt/shame), anger at others (in a general sense, It's rare for me to get angry at a particular person), sadness, numbness, and bargaining.

    It's like a screwed up phases of loss/grief. What am I loosing or grieving, I don't know?

    What exactly am I supposed to accept?

    Anyway, just the reaction I had to your post.

    I too, would like to know how ENTJs(or anyone) glide(s) so smoothly through hostile environments.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
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    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
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  4. #4
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    I'm not bossy, but I do am completely unaffected by whatever anybody tells me about me or my work. Probably this is the trick. I don't feel anything if somebody yells at me, tells me I have done things wrong, tells me I am a failure, etc etc etc
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  5. #5
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    I learned something from a close ENTJ friend: when someone starts yelling at you or insulting you, remove yourself mentally from the environment and detach from the words they're saying, and engage the Ni. That's what he does - he just stands there, perfectly composed, looking at them while they rant or whatever, with his arms crossed and a ponderous look on his face. He's thinking "What's all this then? Where's this coming from? What nerve have I touched with this person - or is it even me? Who else might've stood on their toe, that they don't want to confront, so they're taking it out on me? Just where is all this coming from, and where do they expect it to go? And there's no reason why I should oblige and let it go where they expected it to."

    And then he'll just say something like, "Right, okay. Just let me think about that for a while and I'll get back to you about it." and it's then just as if he'd said "dismissed!" lol cos they sorta fizzle out and awkwardly go into "Um, right, well. Yes. Just um, make sure you do..." trying to save a bit of face, having seen that they just didn't get to him.

    Then he mulls it over to himself and consults someone he trusts about it, and thinks up a plan of how to deal with that person. Then he calls them to him (which puts them on edge straight away - he's calling the shots now when they'd expected to be the one in control) and calmly says something like, "I've thought about what you said the other day, and I just want you to know that there's no problem between us." Which is deliciously enigmatic but impossible to argue with!

    But basically the key is all in the calmness in the face of hysteria. Ne types can find it quite difficult to remain so unaffected by the external environment, whether introverts or extraverts. But it's something you have to learn how to do.
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  6. #6
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Another thing is not to always try to ping off what people are saying. It's easy to be reactive in the sense you feel you need to address the issue, or personalize it in some way, when someone has an opinion or you perceive disapproval.

    The fact is simply that the people you begrudgingly admire (ESTPs, etc.) tend to just see the friction as part of getting to where they want to go. So they use it, plow through it, cause it, whatever.... and don't bother themselves with taking it personally or feeling they need to accommodate/specifically reject someone's ideas.

    They just ignore them or treat them as irrelevant. Which is what you need to learn to do, when appropriate.

    I sense you still reacting to people's treatment of you. Sometimes you can ignore it, but inside you're still feeling that need to justify yourself.

    And yes, INTPs can seem bitchy. We tend to piss on ideas people are excited about (because we play devil's advocate, exploring the side not being presented) and are good at immediately seeing the weaknesses of a position. Since we can be very introverted, sometimes the only things people hear from us are the negatives; we rain on their parade.

    Couple that with the desire to "prove" how much smarter/perceptive we might be, and you have a recipe for social disaster.

    You'll never be an ENTJ, so don't judge yourself for not handling this crap as easily as they seem to. But you can emulate them enough to ease the pressure.

    Conflict is just conflict. People have conflict all the time. You have nothing you need to prove. Hold the opinions you believe in, shrug off opinions that don't matter after listening. Some of the battle will be fought within yourself.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  7. #7
    More human than human MetalWounds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mysavior View Post
    Cheap shots and jabs bounce off, and like clockwork, the ENTJ strikes back and shuts up the idiot that dared. They saw it coming. How do they do that? ENTJs, how do you do that? How do you deal? What am I doing wrong?

    Advice?
    Emotional detachment to start, also I find myself making mental notes, and discerning patterns as to how people act. I usually make note when I see what X said to Y that hurt them, (This will usually manifest itself in the form of coworker Y bitching to coworker Z) and take note of that for future reference. So when coworker Y takes some cheap shot at me, I already know; A. How they react to strife B. What pisses them off the most C. What they might say in rebuttal, in which case revert to A, B, throw something technical in there, specifically something that you know will go right over their head. (Since you've been watching and analyzing their proficiency level.) This will more than likely throw them off balance, and shut them up before their confidence becomes bruised further. (Bonus points if you are in a large group)
    I'm doing science and I'm still alive

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