[NT] NT Control

[rav3n]

I posted this post in another thread and find myself always wondering about this issue.

ENTJ: To be in control

This control comment always causes an internal loop of yes, no, why, but. Need to think about it more. Not so much denial but understanding the source, to validate or reject.

I don't deny that ENTJs want control. But why do we?

Add in that all Ts appear to have control issues whether it's control of themselves, control of their environments or control...period.

Can anyone explain why Te/Ti reacts this way? What causes us to be this way? Pop psychology dictates that it's an element of insecurity. Is it really?

Sorry for the textual diarrhea format.

 

[LunarMoon]

Could you please explain what you mean by control? There's a huge difference between wanting control over oneself (self-discipline), over people (dictator), or over the environment (inventor). Either way, I doubt that there are too many insecure ENTJs and INTJs.

 

[Craft]

Perhaps?


Ti - Self-control

Te - over people

Pe - over environment

Perhaps it has to do with Feeling Functions and therefore predominates in those with either Inferior F or a weak Tertiary F.

I, myself, want control but that kinda contradicts with my "lazy" outlook. Inferior Fe, perhaps creates my self-directional desires. Or perhaps it's really that T?

 

[Amargith]

Te wants control over the environment, and people just happen to be a part of that, or rather an annoying, useless obstacle to many who use Te.

I'd say Fe wants that same control though but focuses on controlling people for their own benefit.

I'd say Fi and Ti yearn for control over their own actions, their own freedom and are allergic to being controlled, as they seek an absolute truth that is highly subjective



As to the reason for a Te-dom to want control? I'd wager it's becoz it allows you to predict and counter what's coming your way. After all, life tosses you curveballs all the time and with strategic planning you can bend those curveballs to your advantage, allowing you to come out on top. It's about having a say what happens to you, what the future brings, as much as possible.

Interestingly, the part of the definition of stress is the inability to predict the future, or the inability to do something about a future outcome you know is coming and you really rather avoid.

 

[Xander]

If you do not control things then they may not turn out as desired. There is a specific desire laid out and a small chance that things will randomly work out that way. Ergo it requires controlling.

 

[Oeufa]

Ti - Self-control

Rings true for me.

 

[Totenkindly]

If you do not control things then they may not turn out as desired. There is a specific desire laid out and a small chance that things will randomly work out that way. Ergo it requires controlling.

Yes, the T function and its two directions of expression are detached by nature. You see "how things need to work" to achieve the desired goal and so you need control to make that happen; otherwise, chaos and incoherence rules. There are different spheres of control that appeal to different types.

Then again, F is a judging/decision-making function and can be controlling as well, just for different reasons.

 

[Xander]

Yes, the T function and its two directions of expression are detached by nature. You see "how things need to work" to achieve the desired goal and so you need control to make that happen; otherwise, chaos and incoherence rules. There are different spheres of control that appeal to different types.

Then again, F is a judging/decision-making function and can be controlling as well, just for different reasons.

Isn't that the oft rehashed controlling vs manipulative differentiation?

 

[Asterion]

Te wants control over the environment, and people just happen to be a part of that, or rather an annoying, useless obstacle to many who use Te.

I'd say Fe wants that same control though but focuses on controlling people for their own benefit.

I'd say Fi and Ti yearn for control over their own actions, their own freedom and are allergic to being controlled, as they seek an absolute truth that is highly subjective



As to the reason for a Te-dom to want control? I'd wager it's becoz it allows you to predict and counter what's coming your way. After all, life tosses you curveballs all the time and with strategic planning you can bend those curveballs to your advantage, allowing you to come out on top. It's about having a say what happens to you, what the future brings, as much as possible.

Interestingly, the part of the definition of stress is the inability to predict the future, or the inability to do something about a future outcome you know is coming and you really rather avoid.

can you do the other functions??

 

[Amargith]

..eh..do? With regards to control or?

 

[rav3n]

Te wants control over the environment, and people just happen to be a part of that, or rather an annoying, useless obstacle to many who use Te.

I'd say Fe wants that same control though but focuses on controlling people for their own benefit.

I'd say Fi and Ti yearn for control over their own actions, their own freedom and are allergic to being controlled, as they seek an absolute truth that is highly subjective

As to the reason for a Te-dom to want control? I'd wager it's becoz it allows you to predict and counter what's coming your way. After all, life tosses you curveballs all the time and with strategic planning you can bend those curveballs to your advantage, allowing you to come out on top. It's about having a say what happens to you, what the future brings, as much as possible.

Interestingly, the part of the definition of stress is the inability to predict the future, or the inability to do something about a future outcome you know is coming and you really rather avoid.

I love this explanation of Te-dom since it's plausible and also palatable.

And yet, the cynical side to me says there's something more to it, something darker. It's a place I keep digging at and can't seem to reach a conclusion that rings true hence the looping conflict.

 

[Amargith]

Grin..power's seductive. It feels good to be able to take charge and come out on top, it makes you all giddy. It's hard to fess up that you cannot control *everything*, and not easy to deal with it when it does happen, especially if you've been on top for a looong time. Also..it blankets the insecurity for a bit. It takes it away, and insecurity is a bitch of a feeling. But when it comes crashing down..that insecurity is right there to prey on you..and you'd do anything to stay away from that.

Good feelings are addictive, especially as the alternative isn't fun. So...people go to great lengths and are willing to sacrifice a lot...often their own principles, stay on top, and feel secure

 

[rav3n]

Perhaps?


Ti - Self-control

Te - over people

Pe - over environment

Perhaps it has to do with Feeling Functions and therefore predominates in those with either Inferior F or a weak Tertiary F.

I, myself, want control but that kinda contradicts with my "lazy" outlook. Inferior Fe, perhaps creates my self-directional desires. Or perhaps it's really that T?

If you do not control things then they may not turn out as desired. There is a specific desire laid out and a small chance that things will randomly work out that way. Ergo it requires controlling.

Yes, the T function and its two directions of expression are detached by nature. You see "how things need to work" to achieve the desired goal and so you need control to make that happen; otherwise, chaos and incoherence rules. There are different spheres of control that appeal to different types.

Then again, F is a judging/decision-making function and can be controlling as well, just for different reasons.

Isn't that the oft rehashed controlling vs manipulative differentiation?

But by extension, Ti/Pe is just like Te, isn't it?

 

[rav3n]

Grin..power's seductive. It feels good to be able to take charge and come out on top, it makes you all giddy. It's hard to fess up that you cannot control *everything*, and not easy to deal with it when it does happen, especially if you've been on top for a looong time. Also..it blankets the insecurity for a bit. It takes it away, and insecurity is a bitch of a feeling. But when it comes crashing down..that insecurity is right there to prey on you..and you'd do anything to stay away from that.

Good feelings are addictive, especially as the alternative isn't fun. So...people go to great lengths and are willing to sacrifice a lot...often their own principles, stay on top, and feel secure

Ka pow darlin'! This too is plausible and palatable as it relates to balance.

So, light side of the moon, positioning to anticipate. Dark side of the moon, cheap thrills and the cozening of insecurities! Te/Fi balance to some degree. Frightening.

 

[Amargith]

Imo, the thing to remember is that bad emotions are just that: emotions that are unpleasurable. They won't kill you. They're temporary, they go away and they teach you stuff. They're there for a reason. There's no need to avoid them, and if you just ride them out you'll find you get a better handle on them with time, leaving you to be less insecure anyways, which breaks that vicious cycle, and makes you even more powerful in a very balanced way...win-win

Repressed fear can be a bad motivator (though being fearless can create similar problems as well), ime.

 

[rav3n]

After fear there is clarity.

Inferior Fi sucks. This is fact as I know it. But you're right that feelings shouldn't be feared.

Feelings should be lined up and shot.

In some ways, I mock power. What is power? It's freedom from coercion by using coercion. Hold the mirror up, embrace the hypocrisy? Bah.

Sorry for the free tripping if it makes no sense.

 

[Amargith]

After fear there is clarity.

Inferior Fi sucks. This is fact as I know it. But you're right that feelings shouldn't be feared.

Feelings should be lined up and shot.

In some ways, I mock power. What is power? It's freedom from coercion by using coercion. Hold the mirror up, embrace the hypocrisy? Bah.

Sorry for the free tripping if it makes no sense.

I like it, very true. I too am not a fan of hypocrisy

Send your feelings my way..I'll gladly entertain them. You don't know what you're missing btw

 

[rav3n]

I like it, very true. I too am not a fan of hypocrisy

Send your feelings my way..I'll gladly entertain them. You don't know what you're missing btw

Baby Fi comes out in strange ways. Intensity when it's let loose. Crazy stuff.

 

[Amargith]

Baby Fi comes out in strange ways. Intensity when it's let loose. Crazy stuff.

I know..and yet it's so adorable, so genuine, so pure and warm when it attempts to comfort others, express itself..like a child, careless and free *smiles*
It's awesome to behold...gotto love and hate the feet-stomping and pouting when it doesn't get its way though

 

[rav3n]

Work it both ways, Satine. You're a joy!