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Thread: NT Control

  1. #21
    Cheeseburgers freeeekyyy's Avatar
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    David Keirsey talks about this in Please Understand Me. He defines all four types belonging to the NT temperament as "power seeking." Knowledge is gained for the purpose of manipulating the world. This is just as true for INTPs, INTJs, and ENTPs as it is for ENTJs. The methodology may be slightly different for the four types, but the same goal is there.
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  2. #22
    Member A. Zhang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freeeekyyy View Post
    David Keirsey talks about this in Please Understand Me. He defines all four types belonging to the NT temperament as "power seeking." Knowledge is gained for the purpose of manipulating the world. This is just as true for INTPs, INTJs, and ENTPs as it is for ENTJs. The methodology may be slightly different for the four types, but the same goal is there.
    You bought that book? Is it worth the money?

  3. #23
    Cheeseburgers freeeekyyy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A. Zhang View Post
    You bought that book? Is it worth the money?
    No, I don't own it. I checked it out from the library. Really not all that great. His theories about temperament are interesting and probably mostly accurate, but he doesn't really go into much depth for understanding the types individually, and doesn't talk about functions at all. I think Lenore Thomson's Personality Type is probably better, though I've only read excerpts.
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  4. #24
    Giggity Vie's Avatar
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    I've been wondering the same thing lately -- but more of wondering why I became the way I am, not so much the motives behind my need to control but what happened to make the way I am.

    I don't think I'm very insecure...more of uncomfortable with certain situations.

  5. #25
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satine View Post
    Grin..power's seductive. It feels good to be able to take charge and come out on top, it makes you all giddy. It's hard to fess up that you cannot control *everything*, and not easy to deal with it when it does happen, especially if you've been on top for a looong time. Also..it blankets the insecurity for a bit. It takes it away, and insecurity is a bitch of a feeling. But when it comes crashing down..that insecurity is right there to prey on you..and you'd do anything to stay away from that.

    Good feelings are addictive, especially as the alternative isn't fun. So...people go to great lengths and are willing to sacrifice a lot...often their own principles, stay on top, and feel secure
    Yes, power is seductive, as is accomplishment. Planning and implementing a course of action, and successfuly reaching the intended goal bring a thrill like none other. Such an outcome almost requires a fair degree of control: over necessary resources, the environment involved, sometimes other people, and always first and foremost oneself. And of course, what I can't control isn't very important anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by vieamemusique View Post
    I've been wondering the same thing lately -- but more of wondering why I became the way I am, not so much the motives behind my need to control but what happened to make the way I am.
    Interesting. I used to wonder if I turned out the way I am because of how I was treated as a child, but I came to see it as more likely that I was treated that way because of the way I was/am. Just as well.

  6. #26
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    But by extension, Ti/Pe is just like Te, isn't it?
    Errm all this function stuff is BS. Ti is nothing, T is something and i is the preferred realm to use it.

    Oh and ENTJs like to control people? Also BS. They only like to control people when they're doing it wrong or messing with the plan. If everything's running fine then why bother?

    Logic first, control second.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  7. #27
    Cheeseburgers freeeekyyy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    But by extension, Ti/Pe is just like Te, isn't it?
    I don't think Te is anything like Ti, regardless of the perceiving function it's paired with.

    In an abstract sense, they're much the same because they both make judgments based on objective material, but the internal workings of the functions are very different. Te seems much more mechanical and formal than Ti to me, based off of personal understanding and observation of Ti in others.

    In fact, even though this is a different than normal interpretation, Ti seems almost more pragmatic than Te in some ways to me.

    Te would look at a problem like this. Say you were ordering a mechanical part from a machinist. The typical Ti user would make sure that it's fit to the dimensions necessary to fulfill its purpose. This is also the case for Te, but it would be done by specifying an exact dimension, where Ti would prefer to use observation. This seems to be true whether paired with Se or Ne, and on the Te side whether Ni or Si.

    Basically, Te seems more concerned with accuracy than precision, and Ti is just the opposite, more concerned with precision than accuracy.
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  8. #28
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freeeekyyy View Post
    I don't think Te is anything like Ti, regardless of the perceiving function it's paired with.

    In an abstract sense, they're much the same because they both make judgments based on objective material, but the internal workings of the functions are very different. Te seems much more mechanical and formal than Ti to me, based off of personal understanding and observation of Ti in others.

    In fact, even though this is a different than normal interpretation, Ti seems almost more pragmatic than Te in some ways to me.

    Te would look at a problem like this. Say you were ordering a mechanical part from a machinist. The typical Ti user would make sure that it's fit to the dimensions necessary to fulfill its purpose. This is also the case for Te, but it would be done by specifying an exact dimension, where Ti would prefer to use observation. This seems to be true whether paired with Se or Ne, and on the Te side whether Ni or Si.

    Basically, Te seems more concerned with accuracy than precision, and Ti is just the opposite, more concerned with precision than accuracy.
    My comment was solely from the perspective of control, rather than the inherent differences between the two although I'm uncertain if I can completely agree with the definition of the differences.

    I do agree that Ti is more concerned about precision down to the nth degree, by nature explicit. It's, IMO, the eternal search for truth and information to qualify or reject non-truths. And even after validation of truth, if new information comes in, the truth is reexamined.

    Te appears to be more concerned about logical blocks, creating infrastructure, looking for flaws within infrastructure and externalising in a conclusive manner. It NEEDs a conclusion. With this in mind, the word accuracy appears imprecise.

  9. #29
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freeeekyyy View Post
    In fact, even though this is a different than normal interpretation, Ti seems almost more pragmatic than Te in some ways to me.

    Te would look at a problem like this. Say you were ordering a mechanical part from a machinist. The typical Ti user would make sure that it's fit to the dimensions necessary to fulfill its purpose. This is also the case for Te, but it would be done by specifying an exact dimension, where Ti would prefer to use observation. This seems to be true whether paired with Se or Ne, and on the Te side whether Ni or Si.

    Basically, Te seems more concerned with accuracy than precision, and Ti is just the opposite, more concerned with precision than accuracy.
    I disagree with the highlighted. Ti would design the ideal part with exact precision. Te would use the practicalities of machining to relax the tolerances where the product would not suffer; and to change rectangular openings to round ones where possible, since they are much easier to machine. In this sense, Ti often seems more idealistic, and Te more realistic.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Kenneth Almighty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Yes, the T function and its two directions of expression are detached by nature. You see "how things need to work" to achieve the desired goal and so you need control to make that happen; otherwise, chaos and incoherence rules.
    But it does!

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