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  1. #41
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craft View Post
    No, seriously, detail Ti =/= detail Se.

    The thing is: details and patterns are one. (That kinda complicates things, but oh well...)
    It's a circle. The two are different but linked either side and therefore in reality are the same but perspective or circumstance shifts it from one to the other.
    Quote Originally Posted by Craft View Post
    Holmes sees the "immediate" detail and concludes the bigger picture from this awareness of details. Se - NiTe. (something like that I think)

    You, if you're INTP, on the other hand, notice the pattern and you store it in your memory for later Ti-"understanding". Ne - SiTi.

    So, in a way, you are restricted by Si, whereas Holmes can "leap" with Ni.
    I'm going to ignore the use of my pet hate (I don't agree with Ni and Ne and all that travesty) and go for a different approach.

    I was interested in firearms as a child (and an older child... right up till now). A 9mm parabellum round is 9x19mm is size and has a higher muzzle velocity than the 0.45 calibre round in M1911s (aka Colt Government) but due to the wider impact area a .45 has a higher degree of stopping power because it can transfer the energy faster. Oddly rounds designed to get around this flaw also include safety rounds which won't penetrate an aircrafts shell.

    I could go on. All details pertaining to something I'm interested in. Oh and I notice the details of weaponry in films before my ESTP wife who is entirely ignorant of them as she only has a passing interest in guns and only from a point of shooting them.

    However read me a list and I'm asleep by item 3 (mentally anyway).

    The best way I can figure it is that Holmes is interested in crime. An obvious statement but one which makes serious implications.

    How fast do you note whether a person is extraverted or introverted compared to one of your Se users who's not interested in psychology?

    It fits a framework but not necessarily centred around that individual experience but as a whole of experiences gather throughout the lifetime of the interest.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  2. #42
    Cheeseburgers freeeekyyy's Avatar
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    I think he means physical details. The details you are talking about, categorical details, are Si details.
    You lose.

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  3. #43
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freeeekyyy View Post
    I think he means physical details. The details you are talking about, categorical details, are Si details.
    Presuming multiple things, like you're even talking to me, can you include a bit more of the thinking which lead you to that statement please? It's a bit "bolt from the blue" to me at the moment.

    Ta.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  4. #44
    Cheeseburgers freeeekyyy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Presuming multiple things, like you're even talking to me, can you include a bit more of the thinking which lead you to that statement please? It's a bit "bolt from the blue" to me at the moment.

    Ta.
    Se leads someone, for example, to notice the objects in a room, their place, their size, etc. Si would lead someone to remember technical specifications, functions, etc. Si is basically the noticing and remembering of abstract details, while Se leads one to notice concrete details.
    You lose.

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  5. #45
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freeeekyyy View Post
    Se leads someone, for example, to notice the objects in a room, their place, their size, etc. Si would lead someone to remember technical specifications, functions, etc. Si is basically the noticing and remembering of abstract details, while Se leads one to notice concrete details.
    Okay I don't really support the notion that say thinking changs what it does when you use it externally so I'll just stay quiet.

    Sorry but otherwise arguments will probably ensue that have nothing to do with Holmes' type.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  6. #46
    Probably Most Brilliant Craft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    It's a circle. The two are different but linked either side and therefore in reality are the same but perspective or circumstance shifts it from one to the other.
    You seem to understand it well. I think I'm going to need a chart to understand that...

    I'm going to ignore the use of my pet hate (I don't agree with Ni and Ne and all that travesty) and go for a different approach.

    I was interested in firearms as a child (and an older child... right up till now). A 9mm parabellum round is 9x19mm is size and has a higher muzzle velocity than the 0.45 calibre round in M1911s (aka Colt Government) but due to the wider impact area a .45 has a higher degree of stopping power because it can transfer the energy faster. Oddly rounds designed to get around this flaw also include safety rounds which won't penetrate an aircrafts shell.
    Sounds like SiTi...

    This is not exactly the same "detail" as I'm trying to say Holmes' notices. It's concrete and factual but the criteria is different. I guess one could simplify and say Si=memories and Se=awareness.



    I notice the details of weaponry in films before my ESTP wife who is entirely ignorant of them as she only has a passing interest in guns and only from a point of shooting them.
    Yes because you're familiar(Si) with these details.


    The best way I can figure it is that Holmes is interested in crime. An obvious statement but one which makes serious implications.
    Well, yes, definitely but the emphasis of his detail has a different nature to your own "experiences".

    Also, we have to ask. Why is Holmes so interested in crime? Could it be because of that stimulating process of deduction? Or perhaps his interest has no relation to his type..?

    Yes, a fictional character but I think we can give him the most fitting "type".

    How fast do you note whether a person is extraverted or introverted compared to one of your Se users who's not interested in psychology?

    It fits a framework but not necessarily centred around that individual experience but as a whole of experiences gather throughout the lifetime of the interest.
    I'm not sure I follow. But I think type, "interests" and "experience-based thinking" has a relationship.

  7. #47
    Senior Member Accept's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craft View Post
    Holmes sees the "immediate" detail and concludes the bigger picture from this awareness of details. (something like that I think)
    Haven't read the stories recently, but as I recall, Holmes rarely sees immediate details unless the big picture suggests to him that the details must be there. In several stories he spends a great deal of time looking over the scene, but from those clues he later figures out what else would be needed to resolve the case. I think he even comments occasionally that he found something because he knew it had to be there.

    What details he finds during the first visit are the things others tend to overlook, but his discoveries are often based on years of study in fields of investigating that others don't bother learning.

    When he notices the details about visitors that allow him to surprise them with his observations, again his ability seems to have been developed over years of studying effects of life on people from various walks of life.

    I'm not sure he's INTP, but his intensity of studying all aspects of investigating, even branching into uncommon areas, certainly fit the INTP's tendency to focus on learning everything there is to be know about an area of interest. He lives among clutter, yet can instantly retrieve the necessary references he needs. He abhors inactivity, but it seems to be more the boredom of the mind rather than a need to be physically active. His respect for Irene Adler could fit a few types, including INTP, since there is respect for her achievement rather than embarrassment or hostility at being outsmarted. The other problem is how little we know about his socializing. Mostly he seems content to stay home, or he'll take in a concert, often alone, so is that INTP, or not? I know it's something I often do, but in going out alone so often, I'm not sure if other types are likely to do the same.
    “Naked to unknown forces, fortune evades mere understanding. The trial of effort.
    The dream of change. Such a place might Hell be to thought and action.”
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  8. #48
    Consulting Detective Mr. Sherlock Holmes's Avatar
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    I'm sick, so I haven't been on much. But I have a little trifle to add to my argument. I read a few more Holmes stories, 'The Red Headed League' and 'A Case of Identity'. The latter also made me frustrated at myself for my own total lack of deductive ability (I detect little more than Watson) but that's sort of irrelevant. Anyway, this second story reminded me of something else. Holmes isn't ALWAYS interested in observing physical evidence in this Se way. Here, he listened to the story, and since leaving was unnecessary, he solved the case right then and there by the moment the lady finished her account. Also, at the end of the Red Headed League, Holmes says
    "These little problems give me some relief from the dullness of everyday life" (paraphrased) which I thought was rather P. Also, I'm not sure if this is indicative of Ne, though it is at least of N: In one story, which I have forgotten which was, Watson asks
    "Have you any ideas so far?" to which Holmes replies
    "I have devised a total of seven solutions as of yet. Which, if any, proves to be correct will be explained once we can examine the evidence." I thought that was rather Ne as it involved expansive imagining of the possibilities and also Ti in that he would not reach a conclusion until all the facts could be verified.

  9. #49
    Consulting Detective Mr. Sherlock Holmes's Avatar
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    Also, I think it would not be wise to type Holmes by things such as memory retention. As we all know, any type is capable of any feat, but they simply have different preferences. Ability to retain memories is something any type is capable of. Besides, with such high levels of skill in so many areas, we are likely to run into several large contradictions. His social skill that are mentioned are at times almost F like, but we all know his natural state is cold and logical.

  10. #50
    Senior Member guesswho's Avatar
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    Don't know if he was INTP .

    In the latest movie with Robert Downey he was ENTP.

    Ne dominant.

    But that's the actor I guess.

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