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  1. #31
    One day and the next Rainne's Avatar
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    Sherlock Holmes' Se is pretty amazing though. He notices like the smallest physical details.
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  2. #32
    Cheeseburgers freeeekyyy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    The answer is INTP.

    Dominant function is Ti, analysis. Tertiary is Si, memory. In the Ti-Si loop an INTP's mind automatically analyzes and objectively picks apart memoryand sifts through it. The result is that INTP's have prodigious memory recall, and on a whim can pull up details and memories that amaze others around (I get it a lot)

    Holmes always had this ability.
    Yes, INTPs can have very strong memories, but it's not usually detailed memory, due to their primary extraverted perceiving function being Ne. INTJs, having Se, notice details in the environment that INTPs do not, though their memory is probably not as good.
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  3. #33
    Senior Member Ethereal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freeeekyyy View Post
    Yes, INTPs can have very strong memories, but it's not usually detailed memory, due to their primary extraverted perceiving function being Ne. INTJs, having Se, notice details in the environment that INTPs do not, though their memory is probably not as good.
    Detail is precisely the word I would use to describe INTP memory. Ne does not denote a lack of detail, on the contrary I've found that my Ne brings in details that others completely overlook. Furthermore, tertiary Si remembers things in hindsight, and (often useless) details are very important to our memories. The way I understand it, Se translates to General but wider while Si is specific but narrow?

    Also bear in mind that the inferior function is all or nothing and is generally a weakness. If Holmes was using Se then it would be pretty useless in the inferior slot. However, in most interpretations (especially in the movie) he is shown to have social problems, which indicates an inferior Fe instead.
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  4. #34
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainne View Post
    Sherlock Holmes' Se is pretty amazing though. He notices like the smallest physical details.
    Aye, and also important to note, he notices instantly and in any situation. That needs to be said too. Anyone can see those details if they look for it hard enough. Holmes notices instantly, despite the direness of the situation he finds himself in. That has to be use of very good Se, and can't be simply 'mimicked' by types not able to use Se to such an extent.
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  5. #35
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrawMan View Post
    It's been some time since I read Holmes books, but my recollection is that Holmes would often just go to the crime scene without much prior knowledge, observe, and then put things together later when he gets new information. Seems like he would be able to notice and remember small details of crime scene and connect the dots later. Which N can do that? Holmes seems like a collection of best and funkiest traits of many different types, and not a believable person.
    Previously I would concurr but apparently some brains are built to record information better. Something about a test done on london cabbies, them famed for having "The Knowledge".

    I agree that it's a stretch and to try to argue that the character doesn't beggar belief or result in some kind of hero role would be futile and incorrect.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  6. #36
    Probably Most Brilliant Craft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Detail is precisely the word I would use to describe INTP memory. Ne does not denote a lack of detail, on the contrary I've found that my Ne brings in details that others completely overlook.
    Ne does not notice detail. It notices patterns. This is precisely why "others" overlook what a Neer easily notices, because patterns are indirect representations of details.

    Furthermore, tertiary Si remembers things in hindsight, and (often useless) details are very important to our memories. The way I understand it, Se translates to General but wider while Si is specific but narrow?
    Extroversion/Introversion of Perceiving Functions determines the flow of perception. If Pe, then perception will rely around the objective. If Pi, then perception will rely around the person(subjective). Thus, Pe is limited by the objective criteria whereas Pi is independent. Thus, Se will be "enhanced" perception in a limited timeframe and situation(objective) but Si will be "consistent" perception relying on the experience of the individual(subjective).

    Se and Si are both specific, it is what makes them "S" functions. What really determines their difference is what is said above. Although, because Se is an extroverted function, it will have the greater degree of specificity but only during that exact situational of perception. I guess you can say Si covers more because historical information is inherently "breadth of detail" whereas Se is "depth of situational detail". The thing is, with information, you can make Si focus on one subject and therefore produce the same "depth" of detail as Se. But it's not as situationally "handy" and "flexible" as Se.


    Also bear in mind that the inferior function is all or nothing and is generally a weakness. If Holmes was using Se then it would be pretty useless in the inferior slot. However, in most interpretations (especially in the movie) he is shown to have social problems, which indicates an inferior Fe instead.
    Inferior Functions does not necessarily mean ineptitude, it could also be about a "wacky obsession in details" such as in Holmes case. What the "Inferior Function Slot" essentially means is the least preferred behavioral inclination. Thus, the least used, thus, the weakest. The resulting "attitude"(frustration) towards the inferior function can either form an "antagonistic" (misanthropy in Inferior Fe) or an abnormally obsessive use of the function.

    With Holmes, however, I see a significantly greater degree of Ni than Se. Sure, he notices some details but the overall methods of his deductions rely on connecting all those dots. I mean, you could get all those details and still be really confuzzled. I think that's where he is masterful, the creation of a complex and yet still valid possible "background/prediction" from the seemingly insignificant details. Introverted Intuition.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    Aye, and also important to note, he notices instantly and in any situation. That needs to be said too. Anyone can see those details if they look for it hard enough. Holmes notices instantly, despite the direness of the situation he finds himself in. That has to be use of very good Se, and can't be simply 'mimicked' by types not able to use Se to such an extent.
    Again, he notices the significance of those details because of his Ni. Does he notice any irrelevant information? Does he feel stimulated by simply "noticing" stuff without deduction? No, he does these things ultimately for the benefit of his dominant function.


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    Of course, that's just my theory.

  7. #37
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    INTPs don't notice detail and yet we're known as nitpickers, correctors of definitions and pedants...

    Strange no?
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  8. #38
    Probably Most Brilliant Craft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    INTPs don't notice detail and yet we're known as nitpickers, correctors of definitions and pedants...

    Strange no?
    That, I believe, is a different form of detail. It's precision in the form of judgement, and what I mean by that is it connects itself towards an overall introverted judgement; it becomes a perceived necessity in the overall perceived logic of technicality. Definitions must be made in order to "properly" conclude certain aspects of the system. (And, in my opinion, rightfully so)

  9. #39
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craft View Post
    That, I believe, is a different form of detail. It's precision in the form of judgement, and what I mean by that is it connects itself towards an overall introverted judgement; it becomes a perceived necessity in the overall perceived logic of technicality. Definitions must be made in order to "properly" conclude certain aspects of the system. (And, in my opinion, rightfully so)
    Now you're avoiding using the detail word.

    Without detail no fine definition can be reached.
    Without detail all patterns would be obvious, plain and boring.

    I love detail. I just can remember random strings of unimportant, disconnected drivel. As it is with me so too is it with Holmes, at least in this regard.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  10. #40
    Probably Most Brilliant Craft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Now you're avoiding using the detail word.
    No, seriously, detail Ti =/= detail Se.

    Without detail no fine definition can be reached.
    Without detail all patterns would be obvious, plain and boring.
    The thing is: details and patterns are one. (That kinda complicates things, but oh well...)


    I love detail. I just can remember random strings of unimportant, disconnected drivel. As it is with me so too is it with Holmes, at least in this regard.
    Holmes sees the "immediate" detail and concludes the bigger picture from this awareness of details. Se - NiTe. (something like that I think)

    You, if you're INTP, on the other hand, notice the pattern and you store it in your memory for later Ti-"understanding". Ne - SiTi.

    So, in a way, you are restricted by Si, whereas Holmes can "leap" with Ni.

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