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  1. #21
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Holmes is not an INTJ. No way.

    Shooting your wall is inefficient as are many of the other things Holmes does on a whim. That's why he winds Watson up who is a J.

    Also there's never a hint of ESFP.

    Definitely a P, probably an NT (the amazing retention of details is more ST but I've been categorising that as his "thing", his hero piece that makes him special) and never in question that he's an I unless you ask MacGuffin who'll probably theorise he's an extrovert who got scared by mice and so hates people or some such...

    Oh and INTPs are not lazy, unmotivated except by specific things is not lazy... just bloody awkward. There's a difference.

    Oh and that's also a sign he's an INTP not an INTJ. He keeps correcting people.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  2. #22
    Consulting Detective Mr. Sherlock Holmes's Avatar
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    I don't think that reasoning is terribly sound. It probably could be if you were to elaborate, though.

  3. #23
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    The Holmes in the movie seems much more INTP in the way the character is perceived (no pun intended) than the one in the books. However the Holmes is described in the book would suggest Te-Ni however, as in the methods and processes that occur in the characters mind. But it's the lines inbetween in the books that you don't really see in the movie.. In the movie he seems much more Ti-Ne.

    But he's a screwed up character anyhow since his Se is through the roof too.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  4. #24
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    INTJ - Efficiency is paramount
    INTP - Truth and thinking are paramount

    I've known an INTJ to be happy with nothing left to sort out, with everything organised and figured out... that to an INTP would be the point where something must be found to be sorted out and thought about.

    Give me complex problems or give me death, I think was the sentiment made by Holmes.

    Note also that Holmes makes definitions which he is happy to go back and remake given new evidence. He's constantly searching for new information and talks in possibilities. These things are more the style of a P than a J.

    Oh and note no real control issues, that would not be very indicative of a J personality. Combined with the random acts done out of sheer boredom or curiosity all adds up to P not J.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  5. #25
    Senior Member StrawMan's Avatar
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    The Holmes in the books seems quite untypable. Seeing and collecting evidence like S, planning like, say, TJ, not needing (nor liking) people very much, being quite original and independent character... what do you make of that? some kind of TJ.

  6. #26
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrawMan View Post
    The Holmes in the books seems quite untypable. Seeing and collecting evidence like S, planning like, say, TJ, not needing (nor liking) people very much, being quite original and independent character... what do you make of that? some kind of TJ.
    Ns can do detailed observation. It's not necessarily a deal breaker.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  7. #27
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Ns can do detailed observation. It's not necessarily a deal breaker.
    The difference is that Holmes does it before anyone notices it. An N looking for clues would be rather obvious to other observers. But Holmes doesn't really observe. He just instantaniously 'sees' and concludes from everthing he sees. That is not how an N would observe in detail. It's a strong Se user capable of deducing complex thoughts based on what he takes in. It's obvious there is strong dominant Se, and the fact he takes no time to reach conclusions suggest a strong intuition as well. That's a contradiction in terms of MBTI.

    Anyway, movie Holmes aside, I still think Holmes is quite untypable.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  8. #28
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    The difference is that Holmes does it before anyone notices it. An N looking for clues would be rather obvious to other observers. But Holmes doesn't really observe. He just instantaniously 'sees' and concludes from everthing he sees. That is not how an N would observe in detail. It's a strong Se user capable of deducing complex thoughts based on what he takes in. It's obvious there is strong dominant Se, and the fact he takes no time to reach conclusions suggest a strong intuition as well. That's a contradiction in terms of MBTI.
    Wouldn't it be more precise to conclude that no one else is looking for that information or infers as much from it. So though an observant S user would observe the clues first they would perhaps discard the information as irrelevant as they wouldn't be using the same big picture thinking that Holmes does?
    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    Anyway, movie Holmes aside, I still think Holmes is quite untypable.
    Wait till you see the new series. It's actually not a cock up!!!
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  9. #29
    Senior Member StrawMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Wouldn't it be more precise to conclude that no one else is looking for that information or infers as much from it. So though an observant S user would observe the clues first they would perhaps discard the information as irrelevant as they wouldn't be using the same big picture thinking that Holmes does?
    It's been some time since I read Holmes books, but my recollection is that Holmes would often just go to the crime scene without much prior knowledge, observe, and then put things together later when he gets new information. Seems like he would be able to notice and remember small details of crime scene and connect the dots later. Which N can do that? Holmes seems like a collection of best and funkiest traits of many different types, and not a believable person.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Ethereal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrawMan View Post
    It's been some time since I read Holmes books, but my recollection is that Holmes would often just go to the crime scene without much prior knowledge, observe, and then put things together later when he gets new information. Seems like he would be able to notice and remember small details of crime scene and connect the dots later. Which N can do that? Holmes seems like a collection of best and funkiest traits of many different types, and not a believable person.
    The answer is INTP.

    Dominant function is Ti, analysis. Tertiary is Si, memory. In the Ti-Si loop an INTP's mind automatically analyzes and objectively picks apart memoryand sifts through it. The result is that INTP's have prodigious memory recall, and on a whim can pull up details and memories that amaze others around (I get it a lot)

    Holmes always had this ability.

    As for him having Ni.

    In A Study in Scarlet, Watson asked Holmes "What do you think happened?" to which Holmes responded that he doesn't make any conclusions until he sees the evidence (I will edit this post with a direct quote later on when I have access to actual book). Hunches are a big part of Ni, and if Holmes was Ni the answer would have been much different.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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