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  1. #11
    Consulting Detective Mr. Sherlock Holmes's Avatar
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    I don't think it's what sort of weird unconventional things you do that matter, but whether you're willing to do them. L sits that way and eats sugar because he LIKES to and wouldn't change that for anybody. I might not like sitting like that (all the time) or eating a lot of sugar, but what weird things I do like to do, I don't change because it might be abnormal. And same as for L. He might not like wandering in circles, so he doesn't do it, even though wandering in circles isn't particularly normal. What I'm saying is that what is normal and what is not is dictated by society and is not a part of nature. In that way my weird habits are no less weird than L's, and the principle is the same. I'm not sure how it makes our tertiary functions different.

  2. #12
    Consulting Detective Mr. Sherlock Holmes's Avatar
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    Also, couldn't L's habits simply be seen as an Si style necessity to comply to personally decided norms?

    Wow, this has gone a bit off topic.

  3. #13
    Probably Most Brilliant Craft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrsherlockholmes View Post
    I don't think it's what sort of weird unconventional things you do that matter, but whether you're willing to do them. L sits that way and eats sugar because he LIKES to and wouldn't change that for anybody. I might not like sitting like that (all the time) or eating a lot of sugar, but what weird things I do like to do, I don't change because it might be abnormal. And same as for L. He might not like wandering in circles, so he doesn't do it, even though wandering in circles isn't particularly normal. What I'm saying is that what is normal and what is not is dictated by society and is not a part of nature. In that way my weird habits are no less weird than L's, and the principle is the same. I'm not sure how it makes our tertiary functions different.
    Have you ever considered how much control/freedom you really have?

    Preferences are still significantly determined by what functions we use. If we liked to hug and say nice things and smile a lot, it would indirectly mean that we have a preference for that type of behavior. The little details do matter. But I guess that's where my argument ends. The rest is really just my experience of reality and people.

  4. #14
    Probably Most Brilliant Craft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrsherlockholmes View Post
    Also, couldn't L's habits simply be seen as an Si style necessity to comply to personally decided norms?
    It has to be SiFe. What is judged from the social environment is stored in the factual(traditional) world-view.

    He could decide to do the same routines out of his own want to comply with his own norms but it seems like he does it intuitively right? He doesn't care much for it but he does it. He just does it because doing it differently(in a different way "Ni) is more comfortable for him.

  5. #15
    Consulting Detective Mr. Sherlock Holmes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craft View Post
    Have you ever considered how much control/freedom you really have?

    Preferences are still significantly determined by what functions we use. If we liked to hug and say nice things and smile a lot, it would indirectly mean that we have a preference for that type of behavior. The little details do matter. But I guess that's where my argument ends. The rest is really just my experience of reality and people.
    Well we could get into the whole free will debate, but since your functions are just rationalisations of your mental process, which is you, I'd say you have total freedom. Which wasn't really what I meant anyway. I was reffering to how it was against the norm despite the fact that our Si apparently means we must comply to the norm.

    Anyway, in a similar idea of defying the laws of functions, like L apparently does, I think no matter what type you give Sherlock Holmes, he probably won't fit 100% into it. I think that comes with the extreme eccentricity. Perhaps his functions are messed around a bit as well. I think there are strong arguments for both INTJ and INTP, and even a tiny bit for ISTP.

  6. #16
    Probably Most Brilliant Craft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrsherlockholmes View Post
    Well we could get into the whole free will debate, but since your functions are just rationalisations of your mental process, which is you, I'd say you have total freedom. Which wasn't really what I meant anyway. I was reffering to how it was against the norm despite the fact that our Si apparently means we must comply to the norm.
    ...to a certain degree. The higher it is in our hierarchy, the likelier it is that we prefer to do things by known methods. I'd say that the idea of 'norms' is a combination of Si and a Je function.

    Anyway, in a similar idea of defying the laws of functions, like L apparently does, I think no matter what type you give Sherlock Holmes, he probably won't fit 100% into it. I think that comes with the extreme eccentricity. Perhaps his functions are messed around a bit as well. I think there are strong arguments for both INTJ and INTP, and even a tiny bit for ISTP.
    Actually, I'm also not sure of my own function definitions so you can't really judge functions on what I say.

    I am pretty sure about Sherlock's INTJ's. I've even had quotes with me last time I argued about this but yeah, wooT! Nah, I gots no time to argue further so yeah...maybe next time.

  7. #17
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    ESTJ.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  8. #18
    Consulting Detective Mr. Sherlock Holmes's Avatar
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    Why?

  9. #19
    Senior Member guesswho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrsherlockholmes View Post
    First off, this is not a 100% definite thing. I just read something about this recently and wanted to ask. I still think it's more likely he's INTJ, but there are some interesting thoughts on an INTP type. I originally thought the detective L from Death Note was an INTJ, but after listening to peoples arguments, I could see where the INTP idea comes from, and I thought that Holmes also shared some of this sort of trait. He has a vast array of knowledge on the subject of his proffesion, and is often very organised in some ways, which is J like, but in other ways, such as the condition of his home, he is very disorganised and messy, which is rather more P.

    Firstly, his motives for detecting. These aren't always entirely clear, I don't think. Sometimes he shows a lot of interest in the traditional justice and purposeful stance of an INTJ, and he did shoot V.R (Victoria Regina) into his wall, which was pretty patriotic one would think. However, it is repeatedly stated that he only takes on cases thatchallenge his mind and that really interest him, which seems rather INTP in the search for knowledge and intellectualism without a whole lot of concern for tha final outcome (keeping the country safe and fighting for a purpose). In fact, I think he sometimes complains when there is no criminal activity because he loves his job so much.

    One of the things I think is a misconception about Holmes is the idea that he is ISTP. Apparently, because he has so much motivation and determination, notices details, enjoys the occasional fistfight and is capable of doing footwork, he is not an INTP because all INTPs are inconquerably lazy and only 100% interested in purely intellectual matters and oblivious to reality. Needless to say, I think this is rubbish. I understand the claim that an ISTP can think intuitively and make connections between situations using Ti and you don't have to be an N to do this sort of thing, but at the same, Sherlock Holmes' focus so overwhelmingly intellectual. He has made his sole purpose in life the discovery of facts and information, a lot of the time requiring him to imagine potential possibilities before the evidence has even arrived and then 'eliminate the impossible' until remains the truth. I have seen plenty of S detectives in TV shows but I cannot imagine an S denying themselves almost entirely of earthly pleasures such as sleep, love (debateable/he might be entirely asexual and aromantic) and such just to think. Holmes spends many hours on end silently thinking about a case while Watson goes about his life. In the Dancing Men, he absolutely jumped for joy at the thought of studying and solving a complex cryptogram and put many hours into it. And as much as an S can think intuitively, so can an N notice fine details. It's not your ability but your preference that defines your type. He also likes the occasional fight. So do I (well if I COULD fight, I would, plus I used to do fencing and enjoy it) and I'm definitely an N. He gave up boxing to detect anyway, so you can see his preference lies in that section. And INTPs I have known, including myself, are willing to put a lot of work into something if we find it really interesting, so footwork is hardly an anti N excuse.

    Anyway, other opinions are welcome. Love to hear what you think on the subject. Please correct me if I have made any blatant logical errors.
    Are you INTP?

  10. #20
    Consulting Detective Mr. Sherlock Holmes's Avatar
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    Yeah. Is there a problem with my analysis? Does it seem biased?

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