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  1. #1
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Default ENTJ wanting to oversee everything

    ENTJ's,

    How common do you honestly think this situation might be? I know an ENTJ who rents office spaces to people. He uses his own building for his business, but also rents out spaces within the building. It's one of those "let's all pool our resources together" (not money, but conference rooms, cleaning fees, internet access, business friendships, etc.) and help each other run successful businesses. And we'll all be one big network for each other in the process.

    But, here's what seems to happen. When one of the small start-ups in the building begins to do well - when it really begins to bring in some serious cash-flow, ENTJ tries to get involved. Not so much in a "let me run your business" type of way. It's more like since it's happening under "his roof", then he's not going to be left behind - he wants to somehow reap some of the benefits of the upstart too.

    The way I see it is that it's "cut and dry". You rent space to people. They pay you for it. If they become successful, you have no more "say" in their business operations than you did at the beginning.

    At one point, one of the entrepreneurs was extremely upset because they said they suspected the ENTJ of "going through their stuff at night" when nobody was in the building. They left important paperwork and files in various specific locations (so that they would know if they were moved) and when they would come back in the morning, the paperwork and files were in slightly different places on their desk or in their files.

    So, imagine you own a building and you rent space to young, creative entrepreneurs. One or more of them really begins to take off in their business - pulling in low 7-figures annually. Are you more prone to just say, "Wow! Congratulations on your huge success." Or, are you more apt to want to have your hand in the success of this person and when they deny you access by *keeping things professional*, would you get offended or start getting nasty in any way? Be as honest as possible in regards to what you might be thinking. I'm not trying to pick on ENTJ's, just trying to understand how Te would handle this type of situation, especially since Te wants to direct how things go.
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

  2. #2
    Cheeseburgers freeeekyyy's Avatar
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    Default

    ENTJ has no right to anything he didn't ask for. If he really thought he should, he could ask for higher rent. Anything else is dishonest.
    You lose.

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  3. #3
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    This isn't Te in action. If it's true, it's an ENTJ with serious ethics issues.

    The entrepreneurs should be referring to the fine print on their lease agreement, as well as adding security cameras to their premises. Better to get proof on camera, who might be viewing their documents. It's possible it's the cleaning staff or even one of their own staff enacting corporate espionage.

  4. #4
    figsfiggyfigs
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    That doesn't sound right... :/...


    That wasn't very helpful I know...

    I suggest camera's as well. Metaphor has the right Idea. He has NO business interferring or even communicating with you guys past "this months rent". If he is an ENTJ, that's one rotten ENTJ.

    Can't you guys find a different place to rent?
    How does he know about the success of the company? is someone leaking financial information?

    Don't leave important paper work there anymore.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    I dont know this doesnt sound very ENTJ to me, its not exactly and NTJ thing to have such a controlling impulse which demands to be satisfied, this sounds like a different type or a neurosis or something, it could be that some of the ENTJ's functions are breaking down and their opposites are asserting themselves but that's the only way that I could understand some of what you've written about.

    Perhaps if you'd given some reason as to why the ENTJ's value matrix was clashing with that of the people who was renting the business premises to then perhaps I'd understand, like if the guy has a strong objection to the sex trade and they where making a fortune from selling sex toys, pornography, things like that, that can fire the TJ but I wouldnt see it firing in a "I'm jealous of your success" kind of way, I'd see it as being more about "Are you doing this? Cant you see this is wrong?" kind of way.

  6. #6
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Messing with other people's papers at night is obviously illegal; excepting legality, it sounds morally questionable, too.

    Anyway, if I was in his position, I would probably be curious to know what they're doing since they're doing it so well. I wouldn't consider such behavior as offensive, as I am quite sure that in my culture nobody would consider such kind of attitude as inappropriate.

    I wouldn't want to have my hand, since I would just be renting some space to them (it'd be foolish to claim that they owe me part of their success), yet if I thought their project was extremely interesting, I might ask if I am allowed to join them and / or finance their firm with some private equity. So, I wouldn't be completely hands-off - I'm not a computer, interesting things often... interest me.

    But, here's what seems to happen. When one of the small start-ups in the building begins to do well - when it really begins to bring in some serious cash-flow, ENTJ tries to get involved. Not so much in a "let me run your business" type of way. It's more like since it's happening under "his roof", then he's not going to be left behind - he wants to somehow reap some of the benefits of the upstart too.
    How exactly does he want to reap some of the benefits?
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  7. #7
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Thanks for the responses guys. I don't currently rent from him, but (a) I'm considering renting from him and (b) I know people who did and they left - very upset. I personally like the guy, but he *can be* very cut-throat.

    And when others have had success, he gets very *nosy*. All of the sudden he is "very interested" in what they have going on, wants to talk more, asks a lot more probing questions, etc. In this case, the successful entrepreneurs didn't care to give him *more information* when he asked/probed. They just wanted to keep it professional. And when this happened (kind of a doorslam to him), he got kind of nasty with them. He started "making life more difficult on them" and that's when their papers would be in different places. He started pointing to the "fine print" of their agreement and really sticking it to them, etc. Just not being very pleasant to them after they denied him *an insider friendship*.

    Might not be right what they did either in the sense that in this building, all the entrepreneurs use their creativity to bounce ideas off each other, etc. It's meant to be a "think tank", advice-offering type of place (but none of that is in the contract - that's just the type of "environment" it is). But, at a certain point, these particular entrepreneurs threw up a roadblock and denied him conversational access to the details of their company (and their success). They said that they had lost trust for him and that he seemed to be a back-handed individual
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

  8. #8
    Aquaria mrcockburn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    ENTJ's,

    How common do you honestly think this situation might be? I know an ENTJ who rents office spaces to people. He uses his own building for his business, but also rents out spaces within the building. It's one of those "let's all pool our resources together" (not money, but conference rooms, cleaning fees, internet access, business friendships, etc.) and help each other run successful businesses. And we'll all be one big network for each other in the process.

    But, here's what seems to happen. When one of the small start-ups in the building begins to do well - when it really begins to bring in some serious cash-flow, ENTJ tries to get involved. Not so much in a "let me run your business" type of way. It's more like since it's happening under "his roof", then he's not going to be left behind - he wants to somehow reap some of the benefits of the upstart too.

    The way I see it is that it's "cut and dry". You rent space to people. They pay you for it. If they become successful, you have no more "say" in their business operations than you did at the beginning.

    At one point, one of the entrepreneurs was extremely upset because they said they suspected the ENTJ of "going through their stuff at night" when nobody was in the building. They left important paperwork and files in various specific locations (so that they would know if they were moved) and when they would come back in the morning, the paperwork and files were in slightly different places on their desk or in their files.

    So, imagine you own a building and you rent space to young, creative entrepreneurs. One or more of them really begins to take off in their business - pulling in low 7-figures annually. Are you more prone to just say, "Wow! Congratulations on your huge success." Or, are you more apt to want to have your hand in the success of this person and when they deny you access by *keeping things professional*, would you get offended or start getting nasty in any way? Be as honest as possible in regards to what you might be thinking. I'm not trying to pick on ENTJ's, just trying to understand how Te would handle this type of situation, especially since Te wants to direct how things go.
    NOTE: I am not a legal expert nor am I a legal advisor. My input is based on my own opinion and recollection of my own personal research. I do not guarantee the accuracy, helpfulness, or validity of my input. By reading my input, you agree that you will not hold me responsible for any direct or indirect effects of my post and its contents.

    Well, of course by presenting his proposal as a "pooling of resources", he made it so he can profit when the entrepreneur's doing well.

    However, the beauty of it is that it's an informal agreement. The entrepreneur probably thinks that the ENTJ will help provide resources and maybe ease other expenses or refer him, etc. So he enthusiastically agreed to this kind of situation...without a contract. So this means that if the entrepreneur had suffered losses/liabilities, the ENTJ would NOT be obligated to share the losses with him.

    Theoretically. Contract law is really tricky. He may have ended up in an implied contract. Not all contracts have to be expressed (written or formally established).

    It's clever on the ENTJ's part, because young, new entrepreneurs are not only relatively inexperienced, they tend to get very excited about their new ventures and are prone to risk-taking. So they don't know how much they're allowing others to get involved in their affairs. How many of them pore over legal documents and study law? Not many. In other words, your entrepreneur implicitly (albeit perhaps unintentionally) gave the ENTJ permission to engage in his business.

    However, the unauthorized snooping is illegal. If the entrepreneur is paying rent for office space, I believe that according to law, it's technically his "property"/"territory". So the ENTJ is trespassing and is either committing a tort (moving/taking some else's property without permission but returning it) or a crime (that is, larceny - taking someone's property but not returning it).

    The entrepreneur could install cameras/security devices and if he discovers the ENTJ wrongfully removing his property or trespassing in his office to snoop around without permission, he might be able to file a suit. Perhaps even punitive damages.

    Anyway, I don't think this is just an ENTJ thing. He just saw a beautiful opportunity to profit. Is it legal? Likely not. But I can see how it'd be hard to resist when a nervous newbie sweating cash come rolling in.
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