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  1. #1
    Member A. Zhang's Avatar
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    Default Hardball - A strategic scenario

    The situation:
    I am competing against an INTP for the position of captain of the robotics team. I announced my intentions a few days ago, and this was his response:

    I would welcome you to run against me as captain. I won't dissuade you away from it because I believe that everyone should have their chance to put their own ideas into action.

    Just remember, I have more supporters than you and am better liked by Dave an Wherley. I am also a Senior. You also forget that I have done much more research and planning than you have. I have tons of ideas I haven't yet unveiled.

    I'm only disappointed that I revealed many of my ideas, plans, and motivations to you in confidence that you would be on my side. It seems a little disingenuous on your part.
    I interpreted that he was feeling threatened by his new opponent.

    So here are the real stats:

    Half the team supports him, half the team supports me, two are undecideds who could go either way. Mentors don't count.

    In his favor:
    • The support of the seniors (1/2 the team)
    • A 4-page long list of ideas that everybody knows about


    Against him:
    • He's unfocused, and the team knows this
    • A reputation to be hard-headed


    In my favor:
    • The support of the juniors (another 1/2)
    • The team knows that I helped INTP on the idea list (more ideas and editing)
    • Great social skills, very outgoing (I have alot more friends compared to him, and in all classes, '11 to '14)
    • The team is disorganized (the elections should have happened last year, so I have weeks to plan and make a move)


    Against me:
    • I have the same unrelenting reputation as him, but as an ENTJ, it's worse



    My strategy:
    I will convince my more tech-oriented friends to join the team, to shift the odds in my favor.
    When election speeches come, I expect him to argue:
    1. his dedication
    2. his one year of experience over me
    3. the number of ideas he has


    I will counterpoint that with this speech:
    Good evening, team 116, my name is Ace Zhang, and I am running for the position of team captain.
    In my experiences as a member of Epsilon Delta, I’ve learned that this team is very creative. For every problem, the members of the team will often produce at least 5 different solutions.
    As team captain, I wish to provide balance to that creativity. I promise efficient execution of the best of those ideas. Under me, this team will become an effective team.
    Vote for me, Ace Zhang.
    As an ENTJ, I am a master of the art of execution.

    But, to my fellow rationals and strategists, let's say you're me. It's your move, what would you do?

  2. #2
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A. Zhang View Post
    The situation:
    I am competing against an INTP for the position of captain of the robotics team. I announced my intentions a few days ago, and this was his response:



    I interpreted that he was feeling threatened by his new opponent.

    So here are the real stats:

    Half the team supports him, half the team supports me, two are undecideds who could go either way. Mentors don't count.

    In his favor:
    • The support of the seniors (1/2 the team)
    • A 4-page long list of ideas that everybody knows about


    Against him:
    • He's unfocused, and the team knows this
    • A reputation to be hard-headed


    In my favor:
    • The support of the juniors (another 1/2)
    • The team knows that I helped INTP on the idea list (more ideas and editing)
    • Great social skills, very outgoing (I have alot more friends compared to him, and in all classes, '11 to '14)
    • The team is disorganized (the elections should have happened last year, so I have weeks to plan and make a move)


    Against me:
    • I have the same unrelenting reputation as him, but as an ENTJ, it's worse



    My strategy:
    I will convince my more tech-oriented friends to join the team, to shift the odds in my favor.
    When election speeches come, I expect him to argue:
    1. his dedication
    2. his one year of experience over me
    3. the number of ideas he has


    I will counterpoint that with this speech:


    As an ENTJ, I am a master of the art of execution.

    But, to my fellow rationals and strategists, let's say you're me. It's your move, what would you do?
    I think your biggest edge is (a) your ability to be outgoing/extroverted, (b) your ability to be organized.

    If this INTP is worth his salt, then you won't be *able* to predict what his speech will highlight. He also knows where his strengths are (relative to you) and he will likely have a few rabbits in his hat come speech time. What I'm saying is, if you want to win the election, don't underestimate him. While he may appear to be nonchalant, complacent, "let the chips fall where they may", he is certainly plotting and strategizing behind the scenes in a major way - if being elected truly matters to him. If it doesn't matter all that much, then he won't put up much effort.

    While your strength is execution, his strength will be devising a strategy that gives him the best chance to beat you. That simple. And like a chameleon, he will be very adept at "slipping into" whatever uniform (or hat) his strategy requires him to wear. Once he devises his most sound strategy, he will *become* that person. And he will most likely be very good at "adjusting" on the fly. If he sees you going one direction and sees that it can hurt him, he'll adjust his strategy on a moment's notice. INTP's (if they care about the issue) love the chess match for the sake of the chess match.
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

  3. #3
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    I will add that your best chance of beating an INTP is to out-hustle him. Execute things with high energy, in a hurry, talk to people, convince them to vote for you - high energy, fast-paced action. That can be an uncomfortable spot for INTP's. If he sees the support from his peers "shifting" to you and he sees you being relentless in your approach (i.e., you're going to eat, sleep, and breathe this election), it will put him in a corner and take him out of his element.

    If you just let him go slow, take his time and think about things, then he'll have a very good chance of devising a great strategy. This is where he'll excel.

    The one type of person I wouldn't feel comfortable "competing" against in an "election" type of scenario, would be the charismatic, smooth-talking, friendly, full of energy type of person. I know I might be able to *out think* that person, but I know that I can't keep that energy level and I know that he could very easily steal my votes when he befriends people.
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

  4. #4
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Be very concrete in your presentation. Details, plans, and visions. You want to give his friends an understanding that they would be doing the wrong thing by the organization by voting for him, which would then override their distaste for doing wrong by him.

  5. #5
    Cheeseburgers freeeekyyy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A. Zhang View Post
    The situation:
    I am competing against an INTP for the position of captain of the robotics team. I announced my intentions a few days ago, and this was his response:



    I interpreted that he was feeling threatened by his new opponent.

    So here are the real stats:

    Half the team supports him, half the team supports me, two are undecideds who could go either way. Mentors don't count.

    In his favor:
    • The support of the seniors (1/2 the team)
    • A 4-page long list of ideas that everybody knows about


    Against him:
    • He's unfocused, and the team knows this
    • A reputation to be hard-headed


    In my favor:
    • The support of the juniors (another 1/2)
    • The team knows that I helped INTP on the idea list (more ideas and editing)
    • Great social skills, very outgoing (I have alot more friends compared to him, and in all classes, '11 to '14)
    • The team is disorganized (the elections should have happened last year, so I have weeks to plan and make a move)


    Against me:
    • I have the same unrelenting reputation as him, but as an ENTJ, it's worse



    My strategy:
    I will convince my more tech-oriented friends to join the team, to shift the odds in my favor.
    When election speeches come, I expect him to argue:
    1. his dedication
    2. his one year of experience over me
    3. the number of ideas he has


    I will counterpoint that with this speech:


    As an ENTJ, I am a master of the art of execution.

    But, to my fellow rationals and strategists, let's say you're me. It's your move, what would you do?

    He may be good at coming up with ideas and designing the robot, but I think any ENTJ is almost inherently a better manager than any other type in most situations. You can't force people to pick you, but that speech you have seems like a good starting point.
    You lose.

    _______

    RCOEI
    Melancholic-Choleric
    Respectful Leader

    Johari Window|Nohari Window

  6. #6
    Member Idontcare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    I think your biggest edge is (a) your ability to be outgoing/extroverted, (b) your ability to be organized.

    If this INTP is worth his salt, then you won't be *able* to predict what his speech will highlight. He also knows where his strengths are (relative to you) and he will likely have a few rabbits in his hat come speech time. What I'm saying is, if you want to win the election, don't underestimate him. While he may appear to be nonchalant, complacent, "let the chips fall where they may", he is certainly plotting and strategizing behind the scenes in a major way - if being elected truly matters to him. If it doesn't matter all that much, then he won't put up much effort.

    While your strength is execution, his strength will be devising a strategy that gives him the best chance to beat you. That simple. And like a chameleon, he will be very adept at "slipping into" whatever uniform (or hat) his strategy requires him to wear. Once he devises his most sound strategy, he will *become* that person. And he will most likely be very good at "adjusting" on the fly. If he sees you going one direction and sees that it can hurt him, he'll adjust his strategy on a moment's notice. INTP's (if they care about the issue) love the chess match for the sake of the chess match.
    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    I will add that your best chance of beating an INTP is to out-hustle him. Execute things with high energy, in a hurry, talk to people, convince them to vote for you - high energy, fast-paced action. That can be an uncomfortable spot for INTP's. If he sees the support from his peers "shifting" to you and he sees you being relentless in your approach (i.e., you're going to eat, sleep, and breathe this election), it will put him in a corner and take him out of his element.

    If you just let him go slow, take his time and think about things, then he'll have a very good chance of devising a great strategy. This is where he'll excel.

    The one type of person I wouldn't feel comfortable "competing" against in an "election" type of scenario, would be the charismatic, smooth-talking, friendly, full of energy type of person. I know I might be able to *out think* that person, but I know that I can't keep that energy level and I know that he could very easily steal my votes when he befriends people.
    Definitely do this.

  7. #7
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    HI can i join your team? also GCC

  8. #8
    Member A. Zhang's Avatar
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    Alright, thanks for the advice, I didn't realize that he may have that many trump cards up his sleeve.

    I'll speed up the action and try to convince the undecideds to go in my direction.

    EDIT: Also, the team won't be having the elections for more than a month. From what I'm getting, this is a disadvantage?

  9. #9
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Doesn't this excerpt bother you?

    I'm only disappointed that I revealed many of my ideas, plans, and motivations to you in confidence that you would be on my side. It seems a little disingenuous on your part.
    As a senior, he's got fewer years left. Are you 100% certain you want this division? Is he really that incompetent as a team Captain?

    Crazy advice coming from another ENTJ but sometimes, patience can bring better results, particularly working with someone who's shadow functions mirror your doms. That is unless he's completely inept.

  10. #10
    Member A. Zhang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    As a senior, he's got fewer years left. Are you 100% certain you want this division? Is he really that incompetent as a team Captain?

    Crazy advice coming from another ENTJ but sometimes, patience can bring better results, particularly working with someone who's shadow functions mirror your doms. That is unless he's completely inept.
    So far, he's demonstrated his strong point: ideas.

    However, our team has had some bad experiences with ideas in the past year: too many ideas that were never fully developed.

    I'm convinced that I am better for the job, because I excel in execution of the idea.

    However, that's my point of view. If you're sure that it will nosedive me into trouble, I'll heed your experience.

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