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  1. #1
    Senior Member Cypocalypse's Avatar
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    Default ENTPs and good extroversion/sociability/hedonism

    Some things are inside my head lately. I wish I could post this on a more ENTP centric forum, but I guess TypoC would do for the mean time.

    First of all, I'd have to admit. MBTI message boards give ENTPs an artificial leverage in projecting a certain degree of coolness. Kinda like a game rigged to our favor.

    It's a writing medium, and we're right up there with the INTPs and the xNFPs. Another thing--MBTI boards lure more intuitives in proportion to the sensors. Lastly, the writing medium enables us to fully express our wit--arguably the best mode for expressing that area.

    MBTI message boards are tailor-made for ENTPs to stand out.

    I have a sort of a goal that....uhmm....whatever form of assertion I have online should at least be matched by some real life credentials.

    E.g.,
    Verbal skills >= Writing skills
    Verbal wit >= Writing wit
    ____________________

    But let's put some reality check into that:
    1. In real life, the average person can't even distinguish a geek from a nerd. My point it, it's a tad silly for an ENTP versus INTP thread to drag for so long. The real world doesn't give a damn about 4 permutations of a rational and another 4 permutations of an NF idealist.

    2. We ENTPs all know that we don't really feel like strong extroverts. The social world is dominated by ESTPs, ESFPs, ESFJs and when we socialize with these archetypes, we don't stand out. Ok, we do, but that's because we are that recognizable geek. Our friends see us as extroverts, for sure, but we're not really that loud, socially. I mean, really.

    3. We have social preference towards those archetypes that are more socially inept. Like the INFPs, INTPs, maybe INTJs, etc. None of them see the virtue of our "forced" extroversion. ENFJ's do, but they easily sell out and bring in their SF social masks. ENFPs are ok too, but they usually put their NeFi spiritual context into their social lives and it feels like talking with them for a prolonged time is like being compelled to join their "religion". It's ok though. They make good friends. They just sometimes lack our NT edginess.

    Sometimes, I feel compelled to "gather" similar intuitive archetypes, and make a social sphere out of it, with me acting as a pseudo leader of the group. It doesn't help that, based on personal experience, intuitives are a very very scattered bunch, and the introverted ones often times don't even want to be gathered to begin with.

    Anyone here recognizes these dilemmas?

    ___________________

    Over the past few years, I was working hard to develop my Fe. Much of it was driven by my sort of envy with my close ENFJ friend. She's really really good with doing social camouflage. She can really hide her quirks.

    Then I realize that putting Fe in full throttle jeopardizes a lot of my other cognitive processes.

    I used to be INFP/INTP-ish, eventually turning into an ENTP (probably more Fe driven than Ne). I just eventually realized how Fe is trying to overpower my Ne, Ti, and Fi just for the sake of social political correctness.

    I came to an eventual realization that I must treat Fe as a tertiary function if I wanna retain my idiosyncrasies. I just can't be too obsessed with it without sacrificing my other functions.

    Has anyone here felt, at some point, a certain feeling of character growth plateau?

    _________________

    Recently, I'm a close friend (non romanticized) to a hardcore mega hedonistic female ESFP who probably slept with dozens of guys already. With a personality like that, hedonism (though not my preferred topic) becomes a common thing to talk about.

    ESFP: You're not taking enough risks.
    Me: Huh?
    ESFP: You're at the very edge of a cliff. Wanting to overlook the canyon but often times, afraid to jump.
    Me: .........
    ESFP: Well, at least you're better than our other friend (an INTJ). He doesn't have any sense of fun. At least you wanna learn. You're not that stiff, by comparison. He's a stiff nerd. You're that geek that's...uhmmm...you just know how to explain stuff I couldn't get out of my head.

    (For an ESFP with no MBTI knowledge, statements like this is impressive).

    Me: I'm not like you
    ESFP: Huh?
    Me: Hedonism is a territory I couldn't really enjoy. My first fling (an ESFP party girl) sure has its sexual perks but I do feel controlled. It's like being that guy in 500 Days of Summer. That kind of controlled. Especially back then, I was more clingy.
    ESFP: Your current girlfriend (a non-sexually aware ISFJ. Ok, maybe that's redundant) can't entertain all your wicked sexual fantasies, and now, you have pent-up emotions/energies. You don't wanna cheat on her, so you've morphed into a social mega flirt. That's probably where your pent up emotions are going. Currently, you have better social options, and confidence. BUT YOU STILL DON'T WANNA JUMP THE CLIFF.

    ___________________

    Some questions for ENTPs:

    1. Can anyone relate with the ESFP conversation?

    2. Is your feeling of geekiness (even if you enjoy this trait) prevents you from taking more impulsive risks because you don't have a clear view of how you are perceived?

    3. The conversation is obviously a lure for an Se cognitive process development. Recently, I contemplated if that's a kind of character development goal, which, unlike Fe, can probably be developed independently without jeopardizing the other processes. I used hedonism as a simplified analogy. Has anyone of you contemplated about this? Meaning, forced Se growth?

    4. What other traits have you taken into "forced" development once you felt that your jack-of-all-trades persona went to a plateau? Is it a crossroad point, compelling you to now take more focus?

    5. Have you developed a strong sense of extroversion while keeping Fe a tertiary function? What dine tuning measures did you use?

  2. #2
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    1. Can anyone relate with the ESFP conversation? Sort of, but I relate more with the ESFP actually. Not that I was a slut, but when I was younger I think I was more hedonistic than most. Maybe not the worst but I probably rank right up there especially as a teenager and young twenties.

    2. Is your feeling of geekiness (even if you enjoy this trait) prevents you from taking more impulsive risks because you don't have a clear view of how you are perceived? To be honest, I've never really felt like a geek. I think I've always known that I'm an oddball compared to society and a lot of that underlying feeling gave me the release to be as hedonistic as I wanted when I was younger.

    3. The conversation is obviously a lure for an Se cognitive process development. Recently, I contemplated if that's a kind of character development goal, which, unlike Fe, can probably be developed independently without jeopardizing the other processes. I used hedonism as a simplified analogy. Has anyone of you contemplated about this? Meaning, forced Se growth? Putting hedonism aside, over time I've felt that I have to develop Se in more every day ways to make my life simpler.

    4. What other traits have you taken into "forced" development once you felt that your jack-of-all-trades persona went to a plateau? Is it a crossroad point, compelling you to now take more focus? Ti and Fe were ones I had to strengthen. I think my childhood had a lot to do with undeveloped Ti, we were raised "children should be seen not heard" and especially female children. It took awhile for me to really trust my own Ti and in return, become comfortable with exploring Fe. This probably ties my Ne rulz and hedonism years.

    5. Have you developed a strong sense of extroversion while keeping Fe a tertiary function? What dine tuning measures did you use? No. Actually the more I developed Ti and Fe I've become a lot more cautious in my approach to people and fostering relationships. Before I was a mass of bubbling Ne now I tend to take my time in relationships, I study the other person, I think on it. I may not have as many friends but I also value those friendships much more as well as they are more fulfilling for me, personally.

  3. #3
    "Everything in its place" fill's Avatar
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    I relate to a lot of this.

    Let me start off by saying a few things: the way I dress changes a lot on people's impressions of me. It starts off with my environment. People here in this city don't understand dressing professionally for the hell of it or the concept of someone dressing up in a style that they think fits them. I'm not zany with all sorts of colors or weird pants/shirts; I have a way of dressing that is classy, and, frankly, it gives people the impression that I think I'm above the norm in some way. For a lot of people (SJs-- like, >90% S and >90% J) they represent the norm and don't appreciate the way I dress; they think I'm a snob (I may be).

    The rest of the people love it. They think at first impression I'm a cool person. "Nice ____ (insert part of my look)!" they'll say. Now, I'm a huge nerd. Like, really. I'm studying physics while minoring in astrophysics and philosophy. Again, this puts me in this "intelligence" spotlight; everyone assumes I'm smart. I'm not that "smart." My SAT scores were average and I know people who have high GPAs that would make my transcript have someone thinking my mother drank heavily while she was pregnant with me.

    So while it's awesome to have everyone thinking I'm a cool, smart person on first impression, it has a huge downfall: the bar they set for me. People think I'm going to grace them with the most awesome knowledge man has ever been blessed with and shed light on different ways of thinking, making a single appreciative tear shed out of their left eye. Not happening. I'm a blunt, sarcastic ass that will call you out for saying something stupid and drop knowledge on you. I will correct you. I will make you look dumb. If you try to make me look dumb, I'll find a way to make you look dumb. It may take seconds- it may take hours; it's going to happen. If they're victim to any of this, a person will respond negatively to these things. They feel intimidated or offended.

    Oops.

    Read here if you were too lazy to read the paragraphs I wrote:

    I give off this sense that I'm passionate about everything, when in reality I just love to argue. I believe the main problem is that people think I'm intimidatingly intelligent.

    The thing is, I'm not incredibly involved socially. I'll go crazy and get a bunch of people together and entertain them on a weekend, but I'm not constantly texting people or talking to them. For example: today I've had hardly any contact with anyone at all, not even my best friend or a girl I'm interested in. I'm too busy doing what I need to do to succeed in life.

    Really, I've got shit to do, and people are only one of the many interesting things to become involved with. Frankly, my social life won't expand my knowledge in my field of study. Anyway, I'm getting back to my book covering space dynamics.
    "Poor bastard. Wait 'till he sees the bats. "
    enneagram - 7/5/3

  4. #4
    Ruler of the Stars Asterion's Avatar
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    I think you might start a few arguments with this OP.

    I can relate to that. You'll never be cool until you actually jump the cliff, and once you do, everything you know will probably fuck up and die. (ESFPs and the like) are good at handling that, you will probably never be like that, you'll likely find that you're not comfortable with it. Ne is curious too, most Ne'ers want to know what it's like but not necessarily experience it.

    I'm too busy developing my other skills to worry too much about Fe, I feel like I can easily get away with the level that I have. I find I wont work on these sorts of things anyway unless someone else out-does me or recieves something that I want. Which has driven me towards guitar and I'm almost becoming obsessed. This is probably due to E3 more than ENTPness.

    Gotta love ESFPs
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  5. #5
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    I've worked on my Se. Se is the easiest way to enjoy the world around you.

    Stopping to look at cool looking things or mindfully experiencing food/physical activity/whatever is an easy way to add pleasure to your life.

    I think that ahs something to do with the OP.

  6. #6
    Member Idontcare's Avatar
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    1. Can anyone relate with the ESFP conversation?

    Honestly, I can't relate with too much of that conversation. People get somewhat pissed at me for some odd reason, because I can articulate well and I guess sound smart to them but thats about it.

    2. Is your feeling of geekiness (even if you enjoy this trait) prevents you from taking more impulsive risks because you don't have a clear view of how you are perceived?

    No. I still make impulsive risks. I just make sure that no one will perceive me as a geek.

    3. The conversation is obviously a lure for an Se cognitive process development. Recently, I contemplated if that's a kind of character development goal, which, unlike Fe, can probably be developed independently without jeopardizing the other processes. I used hedonism as a simplified analogy. Has anyone of you contemplated about this? Meaning, forced Se growth?
    NO. I am not fond of sensing. Not that its that bad. I just dont like the trait nearly as much as intuition.

    4. What other traits have you taken into "forced" development once you felt that your jack-of-all-trades persona went to a plateau? Is it a crossroad point, compelling you to now take more focus?
    Funny about that. I used to be an Intp when I was younger but I realized I had a serious social complex and sought to overcome it. I eventually did and now im an ENTp with an unusually built up Ti.

    5. Have you developed a strong sense of extroversion while keeping Fe a tertiary function? What dine tuning measures did you use?

    Yeah, but its hard for me to maintain my extroversion. I have no problem keeping my Fe tertiary but others just view me as either ruthlessly funny, uncomfortably honest, or just serious. Some view me as light hearted but its mainly just due to my sense of humor. I didnt use any fine tuning method that I could really explain.

  7. #7
    Diabolical Kasper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypocalypse View Post
    1. Can anyone relate with the ESFP conversation?
    Nope. I enjoy risks.

    2. Is your feeling of geekiness (even if you enjoy this trait) prevents you from taking more impulsive risks because you don't have a clear view of how you are perceived?
    I don't identify as a geek and people around me wouldn't suggest that I appear as one. How I am perceived is something of interest to me and as such there are constant checks in my life to understand how I'm seen. Plus as I said, I enjoy risks. So no.

    3. The conversation is obviously a lure for an Se cognitive process development. Recently, I contemplated if that's a kind of character development goal, which, unlike Fe, can probably be developed independently without jeopardizing the other processes. I used hedonism as a simplified analogy. Has anyone of you contemplated about this? Meaning, forced Se growth?
    I'm not as spontaneous as many SPs, but I will go with them, relying on Ne though, I find many of the traits can appear similar on the surface but I don't have the natural spontaneity they do, for me it comes out more as impulsive. As an E 7w8 I am naturally drawn to fun and exciting experiences, maybe the 8 wing makes me more likely to take risks that put me out of my comfort zone.

    4. What other traits have you taken into "forced" development once you felt that your jack-of-all-trades persona went to a plateau? Is it a crossroad point, compelling you to now take more focus?
    The main area I've had to focus on is cutting back on the irresponsible options that my P would have me take. I attempt to draw on Fe and Si in a positive way.

    5. Have you developed a strong sense of extroversion while keeping Fe a tertiary function? What dine tuning measures did you use?
    Do you mean socially? If so no, I'm fairly withdrawn, but I'm comfortable in my own skin so being in social situation doesn't bother me and if I'm called on to be the centre of attention I don't need to shy away.

  8. #8
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Too ADD right now to read through all of this thread (even the first post).

    I just saw something I personally disagree with (although I may not be an ENTP). I actually think I'm much more suited to IRL communication, as I have mannerisms and gesture at my disposal. I also read people's faces moment to moment to see how they interpret the words coming out of my mouth, so I can tailor my communication style to the group I'm in pretty quickly. All of that is missing on the forum, and I have this feeling I come across as making a lot less sense and being a lot less on point.

    In real life, I have extreme confidence in almost every conversational situation. I just know that I can get my point across, even if it misses originally. I have all sorts of rhetorical tricks up my sleeve that I use only when necessary... not to mention the tone I use when I really stand behind a point. I'm positive I'm viewed completely differently by my peer group than I am by you guys.

    So yeah, I think I actually have quite a disadvantage on this forum -- many of the strategies I've worked out my whole life are completely useless here.

    Edit: P.S. I know two ENTPs that are two of the most extroverted people I've ever met (my ex-girlfriend is one of them). I don't think ENTPs are necessarily less extroverted than any other type. Introversion/Extroversion is most definitely a spectrum with many possible intervals in the middle.

  9. #9
    Junior Member Misia's Avatar
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    "Not happening. I'm a blunt, sarcastic ass that will call you out for saying something stupid and drop knowledge on you. I will correct you. I will make you look dumb. If you try to make me look dumb, I'll find a way to make you look dumb. It may take seconds- it may take hours; it's going to happen. If they're victim to any of this, a person will respond negatively to these things. They feel intimidated or offended."


    fill, could you elaborate this allien way of communicating?
    I'm too curios to even be sarcastic about it.
    sorry for offtopic people

  10. #10
    "Everything in its place" fill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Misia View Post
    "Not happening. I'm a blunt, sarcastic ass that will call you out for saying something stupid and drop knowledge on you. I will correct you. I will make you look dumb. If you try to make me look dumb, I'll find a way to make you look dumb. It may take seconds- it may take hours; it's going to happen. If they're victim to any of this, a person will respond negatively to these things. They feel intimidated or offended."


    fill, could you elaborate this allien way of communicating?
    I'm too curios to even be sarcastic about it.
    sorry for offtopic people
    I PM'ed you.
    "Poor bastard. Wait 'till he sees the bats. "
    enneagram - 7/5/3

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