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  1. #41
    Emerging Tallulah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kasper View Post

    Sorry to hear that.

    What have you learnt about INTP-ENTP relationships, that while unique to you, may be good advice for others?
    Well, from my end, I'd say that even though it might be tempting for an ENTP to be wrapped up in their own stuff, and then carve out a couple of hours to be with the person in their lives, the other person might feel like they're just another item on the to-do list. I am really independent and pretty low maintenance. I can be totally supportive of an ENTP's lifework, and I don't need to be treated like a fairy princess 24/7. But I need to know that they're equally supportive of my stuff, and I would like to feel more integrated into each other's interests if they're something we share. I'd rather the ENTP (as I read in the Ask an ENTP thread, I think) sit next to me and do their stuff rather than do their stuff completely separately all the time and then get around to doing something with me specifically. It just felt so compartmentalized.

    In the case of my ENTP, I would like to feel like there was a little flexing and accommodating on both sides, rather than me being the magical girl he's been looking for that slides right into his life and doesn't demand anything of him.

    I would say he probably would have wished I was a little more vocal, as others have said. I'm sure there were lots of times he found me hard to read. Overall, I would have liked more openness and trust on both sides.

    Even though I thought I would like the NT-NT thing of being able to rationally and unemotionally talk about the relationship, I found I didn't really like that aspect. You start to wonder how much you or they really care if you're able to detach yourself. I think you still need a fair amount of sensitivity to the other's feelings, NT though they may be.
    Something Witty

  2. #42
    DoubleplusUngoodNonperson
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    Quote Originally Posted by strawberries View Post

    re nozflubber's post - i think immature entps tend to be bit brash with opinions that don't click with theirs, but as they mature they can appreciate different points of view and be more relaxed/nuanced (tallulah used the word intense - i was more intense when i was a baby strawberry).
    see that's where I totally disagree. Yes of course, anyone will see that trying to engage an ENTP such as Eck (<3 2 my francophone pal if he reads this) in ANY kind of discussion is futile. You just let him run his mouth, intake any good ideas or critiques he has (which he often does), and then go on about your day. Sharing with ENTPs like that is akin to trying to share with a brick wall. There's NO incentive from our end and no doubt you can see that.

    My contention to you and ALL the ENTPs saying "i wish INTPs would share more" is that ENTPs as described above are the norm rather than the rare, EVEN when accounting for maturity levels. You say it's immaturity, but I say what you refer to as maturity is just some ENTPs realizing they need to hide, for the sake of social graces, the fact that they feel their train of thought and analysis on an issue is the best and most prosperous. But its just so as to merely be polite and PC to others around them. They still will read what you have to say, politely refute or ignore you REGARDLESS of the analytical input you've brought forth, and continue on with whatever train of thought they were working on before. I even feel you kind of did just that in your post there and didn't even bother to try and listen to me, but I don't want to throw stones at you - just saying what it looks like from my vantage point.

    I'm not bitter about past experiences i've had, because there's nothing really bitter to be about other than maybe disappointment. I really wish there was a point or purpose it trying to share my inner musings with ENTPs as much as there is in sharing it with INTJs and ENTJs. I just don't see what that point could be, unfortunately. Perhaps this perception is just me valuing the NTJs Te analysis to help me crosscheck my own ideas which *I* feel are superior to the ENTPs, but I just don't know.

  3. #43
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nozflubber View Post
    Sharing with ENTPs like that is akin to trying to share with a brick wall, and no doubt you see that.

    [...]You say it's immaturity, but I say what you refer to as maturity is just some ENTPs realizing they need to hide, for the sake of social graces, the fact that they feel their train of thought and analysis on an issue is the best and most prosperous. [...]
    Hiding is insecurity. A loud and obnoxious, assertive person is hiding his insecurity, always, cause attack is the best defense.

    I cant speak for all entps, but for me its not even easy to share my own thoughts with my gf. On top of that, there is no clear set of "my own thoughts". When I talk to five people about a matter, my train of thought in the end is formed by various parts of their opinions, influenced by how I feel about it. This results in a fluctuating piece of waterlike opinion, which can be influenced by any better and new idea again.

    As a person, my most definite problem in life was always to talk about myself and to be taken seriously by people. I've thought intps would suffer similiar issues, instead they strike you with the sword of justice.

    The behaviour you talk about, I dont know how to change. I dont want to talk with people about my feelings, it would just make me angry and really upset. I dont know how to solve this problem and I dont understand why I need to. I've yet to meet a person, who had similiar experiences like me in life to talk with him/her about life. I accept other opinions, but 9 out of 10 opinions can be contradicted with 1,000 different ideas and views on the matter and to really discuss with someone, clinging to an idea that can be viewen from thousand different perspectives and he doesnt want to see that, is taxing by all means.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  4. #44
    DoubleplusUngoodNonperson
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    I've thought intps would suffer similiar issues, instead they strike you with the sword of justice.


    ...to really discuss with someone, clinging to an idea that can be viewen from thousand different perspectives and he doesnt want to see that, is taxing by all means.
    hmmmm, maybe both are to blame here them? Maybe Ti mixed w/ Ne tends to make us both ego-centric jerks that say "i can't be wrong and I don't wanna listen", because I'm also guilty of some of the things I am critical of in my above post.

  5. #45
    shadow boxer strawberries's Avatar
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    good ideas get traction with me; they give me a buzz - whether they're mine or someone else's.

  6. #46
    DoubleplusUngoodNonperson
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    Quote Originally Posted by strawberries View Post
    good ideas get traction with me; they give me a buzz - whether they're mine or someone else's.
    That's great! Me too.

    Now, i'll ask it again but more briefly: what incentive do I as INTP have to share with you? To give you your buzz?

    Did you even bother reading my entire post or were you answering someone else or something? :/

  7. #47
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nozflubber View Post
    hmmmm, maybe both are to blame here? Maybe Ti mixed w/ Ne tends to make us both ego-centric jerks that say "i can't be wrong and I don't wanna listen", because I'm also guilty of some of the things I am critical of in my above post.
    Whatever the answer is, I can assure you, I give a shit on my standing or reputation in society and will always do. I dont respect hierarchy based on authority or coolness or whatsoever, I respect people for their knowledge and their wisdom.

    I personally evade all emotional talk whenever I can and all talk about me or life in general whenever I can. The times I really managed to overcome my own momentum of inertia when it comes to dealing with my own feelings, were followed by long periods of depression, cause I found so many unanswered feelings and things I didnt understand about me, that I became a masterpiece emo. And this insightfulness hindered my forthcoming in society to such a great extent, I dont know, I was even at points where I wanted to end my life. This isnt the way for me, I have yet to find the right mixture, between ignoring myself and understanding myself.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  8. #48
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nozflubber View Post
    hmmmm, maybe both are to blame here them? Maybe Ti mixed w/ Ne tends to make us both ego-centric jerks that say "i can't be wrong and I don't wanna listen", because I'm also guilty of some of the things I am critical of in my above post.
    I was gonna say something to this effect - all NTs have a tendency to be combative/dismissive. And what entropie was saying about insecurity is true. Many (most?) ENTPs are profoundly insecure, hence the need to impose themselves on their environment / make an impression. They need massive amounts of reassurance too. It gets wearing. But then I realised that this is turning into the "what intps think of entps" thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  9. #49
    DoubleplusUngoodNonperson
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    But then I realised that this is turning into the "what intps think of entps" thread.
    Hey, they started it!! :workout:

  10. #50
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    I was gonna say something to this effect - all NTs have a tendency to be combative/dismissive. And what entropie was saying about insecurity is true. Many (most?) ENTPs are profoundly insecure, hence the need to impose themselves on their environment / make an impression. They need massive amounts of reassurance too. It gets wearing. But then I realised that this is turning into the "what intps think of entps" thread.
    Yes.

    I've surpassed the point at which I needed those massive amounts of reassurance. With age it's getting better. I've learnt to trust more in my abilities and to rarely question my motives.

    This "old illness" tho is constantly bickering with my soul, everytime I am doing something. I managed to keep it hidden so good that they even entrusted me with an important job as a decider at work, which is like a nightmare for me.

    I have thought about what to do next and I probably will need to see a doctor about this. I cant live with this constant question influencing my emotions "door A or door B ? what about door C ?"; "did I do it right ? Or didnt I ? Did I offend him ? What does he think ?"
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

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