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[INTP] The INTP and Feelings

reason

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Apr 26, 2007
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1,209
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ESFJ
I have been told by many people that I am remarkably good at understanding others, and that I can explicate that understanding in a clear and concise manner. Consequently, I have frequently acted in a counselor capacity to others, and I am acutely aware that this often involves conscious and calculated manipulation. This is not nefarious or ill-intended manipulation, but nonetheless I do intend to manipulate the emotional state and thoughts of others, and do so quite successfully, or so I am told.

In fact, I am fascinated by people, their emotions, feelings, customs, habits, predelictions, theories, incentives, motives, etc. and have invested a great deal of time studying morality and ethics. For example, some would say that I am interested in economics, but this is not quite right. Instead, I am interested in the relationships which hold between people, their well-being, conduct and the social rules which govern that. My attitude is like that of Adam Smith, who never considered himself an economist, but rather a moral philosopher.

The purpose of my writing this, is to draw attention to the fact that INTPs are often said to be uninterested, or even incapable of dealing with these issues. This view, which perhaps aligns with the common assumption that reason and emotion are inherently incompatible, with each reigning over seperate magisteria, is at odds with my life, interests, hobbies, attitude and personal experience.

There is, perhaps, a source of this confusion, in that INTPs frequently appear to be socially incompetent and awkward. There is some truth in this for me. I am not always aware of social trends, local customs, and my absent-mindedness frequently is interpreted as rudeness. I also often choose to avoid many social engagements. Moreover, I can be somewhat undiplomatic, intentionally so, and many mistake this for not understanding the "appropriate" behaviour.

Anyway, I was just posting to see if anyone else had any similar experiences. In any case, I think it is a persistent myth that those who test INTP are both emotionally and socially as deaf, dumb and blind as many suggest.

(Note: I almost always test as an INTP, very occasionally as ENTP or INTJ).
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
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50,187
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BELF
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sx/sp
While some INTPs might be oblivious (because their attention has been fiercely focused on other things besides social customs, emoting, face reading, perception of the inner states of others, etc.), I think you are right.

Oftentimes the expectations are understood, they are just ignored or not prioritized as highly as others might prioritize them, because the INTP values other things more or just really doesn't understand why other people value them so much... or perhaps even purposefully chooses not to comply, because they think the expectations are stupid or misguided and that they need to take a stand against such things in order to maintain integrity.

(And this is what I find with people in general, of all types. When they run afoul of other types' expectations, it is not necessarily because they are clueless... but because their personal value/priorities conflict with these other ones, and they are choosing to follow their own priorities.)

So conflict is inevitable at first.

I don't see INTPs as shut out of the social, relational, or emotional arena at all. It is mostly a matter of choice and focus as to what INTPs commit their resources towards. Most of the excuses are bogus. On INTPc, the attitude predominately is not "I don't perceive the expectations," it's "I think the expectations are stupid" or "I'm angry because of all the stupid things people expect me to comply with that I don't think make sense or are arbitrary."
 

Priam

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Dec 20, 2007
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272
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INTP
It's interesting you bring this up, because I recently discussed it with my ENFP friend. She is a social butterfly, constantly in motion doing something with or for other people, while I tend to be the one standing off and observing. This makes me rather more inept at gladhanding, but much more reliable at evaluation/critique. We both, however, share the ability to charm and impress people when necessary, though our techniques are quite different.

I believe, for an INTP, the ability to understand and, above all, acheive that ever-important competence rests entirely in making people our hobby. Due to my intense interest in psychology and the politics of society, I am able and eager to see people as an end in themselves rather than a means that may or may not be dispensed with. Does this mean I don't eventually weary of their company and need to recharge? Of course not. It just means that, when I'm out in the world I can effectively move within it.
 

faith

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Apr 25, 2007
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Isn't Keirsey an INTP? If so, that would seem to be a very good example of how thoroughly INTPs can understand people and their relationships with each other.
 

Xander

Lex Parsimoniae
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Apr 24, 2007
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9w8
Hell yeah. An INTP who has an interest in people and their reactions and interactions will apply a large amount of time and effort to master that field (become competent). Mostly INTPs are masters of whatever is their focus. That's the goal. The whole ignorance of things which lie outside of this central thrust is an offshoot of the focus itself. It kind of blinkers you.
 

God Of Emptiness

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Dec 24, 2007
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INTP
INTP's aren't always the detached emotionless people were made out to be in type descriptions. Our feelings may even run deeper than a more Extraverted Feeling types we just keep it to ourselves most of the time and try to understand it. I only share my feelings with those that I trust, which are a very select few.
 

Athenian200

Protocol Droid
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4w5
Oh, I'd agree that INTP's tend to have emotions... just not the ones you'd like them to have, or would expect them to have. They seem to overreact to insignificant expectations and can be oblivious to glaringly obvious ones, from what I can tell. And I think this improves with effort, over time. (This can apply to many other Introverted types as well.)

Anyway, in response to nocturne on overlooking local customs: I've found that as long as you try to obey social expectations that are common across a large area (such as a state or country), people are more forgiving if a more local or recent thing is overlooked at first. They know that it might be unusual enough for some not to be aware of it. This is even more likely if you look really apologetic and say you didn't know that was expected. Very few people are rigid enough to be that unforgiving.
 

Magic Poriferan

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I'm definitely and exception to the stereo-type.
I am receptive to feelings and I admire the ability to be emotional in other people.
In public, I do hold back my emotions, but I don't think I'm unpleasant about it, I think I'm the kind of person that nervously shuffles and says things like "pardon me" a lot.
When I'm involved with people I trust, then I might be too open with my feelings. :doh: I think I look to my confidants as a well needed venting point. They are my emotional pillows.

Now, it's obvious to me that I'm a bit of an odd bannana among my type, so I often look at my other results and compare.
I know that being a 1w2 is odd for an INTP, but I wonder my instincts as well.
How many INTPs are Intimate? (For those of you who don't understand, I mean the "sexual" instinct.)
I'm Intimate, and then self-Preservational, and then Social in last place.
Perhaps that's uncommon?

For me, the whole thing with INTPs being so aloof is rather frustrating. It's not fair to me.
 

htb

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1w9
Aficionados of music include the tone-deaf.

Three people I know well, who are more or less confirmed INTPs, are remarkably similar: independent, idiosyncratic, outwardly mild, puzzled by human relations and to whom anger or intensity could be classified as extrinsic. INTPs aren't necessarily deficient interpersonally because they are inclined to pure logic; I don't know the cause but am acutely aware of the condition.

Let me grasp for another analogy: an INTP pushed beyond what he's been taught is like a poor improviser forced to deviate from the script that he had well-rehearsed. There's nothing quite like the sudden monotone of an INTP who must relationally ad-lib.

Hexchild, from INTPc, matched these three in the autobiographical information he provided. At one point he noted that he understood relationships as static, as if they were code or statute; and that a change couldn't be perceived, or even conjectured, but only announced by the other. One of my three, an INTP to whom I was once quite close, disclosed the same mechanical process. We were settling a stillborn romance -- the discussion my initiative, of course -- and I defended an acerbic statement I'd made in front of others. She thought I was still angry. I said I wasn't; and as if she were reformatting a disk, or replacing a link to a cascading style sheet, she replied, "then I'll no longer assume you're acting out of a grudge." Damnedest thing.
 

Magic Poriferan

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Let me grasp for another analogy: an INTP pushed beyond what he's been taught is like a poor improviser forced to deviate from the script that he had well-rehearsed. There's nothing quite like the sudden monotone of an INTP who must relationally ad-lib.

You really think so? That sounds like an ISTJ to me.
I have never thought of INTPs as people that run by a taught script.
 

Athenian200

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You really think so? That sounds like an ISTJ to me.
I have never thought of INTPs as people that run by a taught script.

Neither did I. I would have assumed that could be any ISxJ. I've always seen INTP's as good improvisers, who occasionally don't "get" how their ideas will be taken.
 

htb

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It's an analogy, you two.

There has to be someone with real-life experience with INTPs who recognizes this. One moment, they are laughing, interacting -- indistinguishable from the rest. Ask them the wrong question, and they're stultified.
 

Magic Poriferan

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Neither did I. I would have assumed that could be any ISxJ. I've always seen INTP's as good improvisers, who occasionally don't "get" how their ideas will be taken.

But his phrase "monotone" makes it seem more like an ISTJ than a ISFJ.
 

Magic Poriferan

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It's an analogy, you two.

There has to be someone with real-life experience with INTPs who recognizes this. One moment, they are laughing, interacting -- indistinguishable from the rest. Ask them the wrong question, and they're stultified.

Hmmm.
I'm trying to look back into my past.
 

Gabe

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Nov 17, 2007
Messages
590
MBTI Type
ENTP
I have been told by many people that I am remarkably good at understanding others, and that I can explicate that understanding in a clear and concise manner. Consequently, I have frequently acted in a counselor capacity to others, and I am acutely aware that this often involves conscious and calculated manipulation. This is not nefarious or ill-intended manipulation, but nonetheless I do intend to manipulate the emotional state and thoughts of others, and do so quite successfully, or so I am told.

In fact, I am fascinated by people, their emotions, feelings, customs, habits, predelictions, theories, incentives, motives, etc. and have invested a great deal of time studying morality and ethics. For example, some would say that I am interested in economics, but this is not quite right. Instead, I am interested in the relationships which hold between people, their well-being, conduct and the social rules which govern that. My attitude is like that of Adam Smith, who never considered himself an economist, but rather a moral philosopher.

The purpose of my writing this, is to draw attention to the fact that INTPs are often said to be uninterested, or even incapable of dealing with these issues. This view, which perhaps aligns with the common assumption that reason and emotion are inherently incompatible, with each reigning over seperate magisteria, is at odds with my life, interests, hobbies, attitude and personal experience.

There is, perhaps, a source of this confusion, in that INTPs frequently appear to be socially incompetent and awkward. There is some truth in this for me. I am not always aware of social trends, local customs, and my absent-mindedness frequently is interpreted as rudeness. I also often choose to avoid many social engagements. Moreover, I can be somewhat undiplomatic, intentionally so, and many mistake this for not understanding the "appropriate" behaviour.

Anyway, I was just posting to see if anyone else had any similar experiences. In any case, I think it is a persistent myth that those who test INTP are both emotionally and socially as deaf, dumb and blind as many suggest.

(Note: I almost always test as an INTP, very occasionally as ENTP or INTJ).


Ok then, today's assigned reading will be (from the amazon search-inside feature of course. Of course, buying the book would be even better)- "inferior feeling of the introverted thinking type" in Psychotherapy, by Von Franz.
 

Xander

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9w8
Aficionados of music include the tone-deaf.

Three people I know well, who are more or less confirmed INTPs, are remarkably similar: independent, idiosyncratic, outwardly mild, puzzled by human relations and to whom anger or intensity could be classified as extrinsic. INTPs aren't necessarily deficient interpersonally because they are inclined to pure logic; I don't know the cause but am acutely aware of the condition.
I'd have said the "deficiency" is more related to an obsession with thought rather than a disinterest in other things. It's not so much that people are pushed away but there's just not so much room when you've got all that thinking to do.
Let me grasp for another analogy: an INTP pushed beyond what he's been taught is like a poor improviser forced to deviate from the script that he had well-rehearsed. There's nothing quite like the sudden monotone of an INTP who must relationally ad-lib.
Lack of confidence in the ability to be competent at the task at hand. Oh and many people describe me as hesitant. Not sure why I am but I like forewarning of events so I can kinda psych myself up for them.

If someone suggests going out one evening (as some swine has planned for Saturday) then I try to ensure that I spend lots of time doing fun stuff so when the time comes to go out I'm not dragging my heels wishing I could stay in cause I've got soo much stuff to do.

Yeah it is kinda odd. P, very flexible in the sense of thinking but not so flexible in the sense of action.
Hexchild, from INTPc, matched these three in the autobiographical information he provided. At one point he noted that he understood relationships as static, as if they were code or statute; and that a change couldn't be perceived, or even conjectured, but only announced by the other. One of my three, an INTP to whom I was once quite close, disclosed the same mechanical process. We were settling a stillborn romance -- the discussion my initiative, of course -- and I defended an acerbic statement I'd made in front of others. She thought I was still angry. I said I wasn't; and as if she were reformatting a disk, or replacing a link to a cascading style sheet, she replied, "then I'll no longer assume you're acting out of a grudge." Damnedest thing.
That's odd. Can't say I've ever behaved like that. I tend to take people as they are at that moment. Even those who I've got good reason to think are against me I've been perfectly nice to unless given reason to act differently at that point in time.

Oh well chalk another difference up with INTPs.
 

Priam

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Dec 20, 2007
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INTP
Lack of confidence in the ability to be competent at the task at hand. Oh and many people describe me as hesitant. Not sure why I am but I like forewarning of events so I can kinda psych myself up for them.

If someone suggests going out one evening (as some swine has planned for Saturday) then I try to ensure that I spend lots of time doing fun stuff so when the time comes to go out I'm not dragging my heels wishing I could stay in cause I've got soo much stuff to do.

Amen. I'll agree to do something a week out, then find myself muttering on the night of about how I just got those cool new movies and I wanted to read about such-and-such on Wikipedia, oh! and what about that book I'm in the middle of? The social event becomes an extraordinarily low priority..

That's odd. Can't say I've ever behaved like that. I tend to take people as they are at that moment. Even those who I've got good reason to think are against me I've been perfectly nice to unless given reason to act differently at that point in time.

Oh well chalk another difference up with INTPs.

I'll agree with this, too. While there are a small number of people I definitely try to avoid, I rarely do so out of a strong personal dislike or angry grudge. I am just consciously aware that they have been toxic in the past. However, should I bump into them, I am honestly open to dialogue that proves me in error. Other friends? I am usually the one who FIRST picks up a change in attitude or conduct and adjusts accordingly. I do fall into the INTP stereotype of being extraordinarily direct and open, thus being quite willing to make a statement of recalibration like the girlfriend example, but that is an exception to the rule of my life.

I'm one cup of coffee short of full consciousness, so someone tell me if that makes sense.
 

ms_ambivalence

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Jan 14, 2008
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30
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INTP
It's an analogy, you two.

There has to be someone with real-life experience with INTPs who recognizes this. One moment, they are laughing, interacting -- indistinguishable from the rest. Ask them the wrong question, and they're stultified.

INTP can act as a bit of a chameleon in relationships mirroring back emotional contemnet of other people especially in conversations about something they care about.

I can think of many things that would have me go from laughing and open to quiet and brooding in a heartbeat, and can see where an INTP who isn't as social as I am might appear stultified

believing you are trying to press, well just about anything , on them

not thinking you would really want to hear what they have to say on the subject

avoiding the knee jerk reaction of lashing out cruely

maybe even believing that whatever you asked was none of your business

either way I can't imagine how hard it would be on them to appear innefectual and foolish if they are INTP
 

Athenian200

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I can think of many things that would have me go from laughing and open to quiet and brooding in a heartbeat, and can see where an INTP who isn't as social as I am might appear stultified

believing you are trying to press, well just about anything , on them

not thinking you would really want to hear what they have to say on the subject

avoiding the knee jerk reaction of lashing out cruely

maybe even believing that whatever you asked was none of your business

either way I can't imagine how hard it would be on them to appear innefectual and foolish if they are INTP

That sounds like a comprehensive list. And it's kind of understandable that they might react that way in seeing those situations... I might well either subtly insult the person, or (more likely) take on an irritated tone to give them the impression that this is not something they want to talk to me about unless it's absolutely necessary, while offering a change of subject. I can imagine an INTP in particular wanting to avoid such behavior.

On the other hand, there are probably fewer situations that make me feel that way than with an INTP.
 

wildcat

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Jun 8, 2007
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3,622
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INTP
I went to the cafe.

I said coffee.
I did not have the coffee.

I said what is it now.
She said you don't say coffee in this establishment. You say coffee please.

Ok.

I said coffee please.
If she says I have to crawl on the floor, I crawl on the floor.
Big deal.
The main thing is to have the coffee.
 
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