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  1. #31
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garivande View Post
    I'm not sure I understand that. I thought I was being sensitive when I tried not to hurt others, while my "emotional" friends could - ever so deliberately - set out to hurt someone else...!?
    Sure, I might hurt someone without knowing/noticing it, but I would never do it on purpose!
    Standing up for what you believe in or for how you feel is being emotional. There's bound to be someone who objects, logically, but to do otherwise is to be less emotional.

    (Sorry should have included lucid explanation )
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  2. #32
    Junior Member Garivande's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by miked277 View Post
    i think that the "flavor" of an intp is based on their upbringing/parents/environment.
    I was raised by aliens. Or rather: I was an alien brought up in an earthling family (my parents are ESTJ and ISFJ). Not sure what that's supposed to have made me... Certainly not more earthbound (although I learned to "talk and understand" earth-language), I have a very strong N.
    My fathers "T" probably encouraged my own (I despiced my mother for many years for being so "F"; long before I knew about "T" and "F" of course).

    I have always tried hard not to be so "I", and always ashamed of being "P" - so my first MBTI test came as a revelation to me: "there are other people like me in the world, and being 'J' is not necessarily worth more than being 'P'...!"

  3. #33
    Junior Member Garivande's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Standing up for what you believe in or for how you feel is being emotional.
    Hmm. I understand what you're saying, but not quite sure I agree.
    I would like to be acknowledged for being emotional even though I keep all my emotions hidden (I... can see why this never happens)...
    But isn't that more of an "E" vs "I" quality, rather than the "T" vs "F"...?
    (Or do I miss the whole point just because I'm handicapped by being INTP!?)

  4. #34
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garivande View Post
    Hmm. I understand what you're saying, but not quite sure I agree.
    I would like to be acknowledged for being emotional even though I keep all my emotions hidden (I... can see why this never happens)...
    But isn't that more of an "E" vs "I" quality, rather than the "T" vs "F"...?
    (Or do I miss the whole point just because I'm handicapped by being INTP!?)
    IxFx is not in your nature old boy. ESFJ is. First we walk, then we run (not meant to sound patronising but I couldn't recall the much superior quote I was trying to remember...sorry).
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  5. #35
    Senior Member Priam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garivande View Post
    I'm not sure I understand that. I thought I was being sensitive when I tried not to hurt others, while my "emotional" friends could - ever so deliberately - set out to hurt someone else...!?
    Sure, I might hurt someone without knowing/noticing it, but I would never do it on purpose!
    I think the difference is in priorities. I would say, as a rule of thumb, that INTPs would much rather give ground to others' emotions than take up others' space with our own. It's all about placidity, ease, calm in the outside world... but that's not being true to our own emotions. Sometimes to truly engage what we're feeling, doors need to be kicked down and fires need to be set! Compassion and support are "easy" emotions (for me at least), while acknowledging and venting burning, illogical rage takes more work! In other words: it's a strain to realize that occassionally hurting others is a key component of healing your emotional self.

  6. #36
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Priam View Post
    I would say, as a rule of thumb, that INTPs would much rather give ground to others' emotions than take up others' space with our own. It's all about placidity, ease, calm in the outside world... but that's not being true to our own emotions. Sometimes to truly engage what we're feeling, doors need to be kicked down and fires need to be set! Compassion and support are "easy" emotions (for me at least), while acknowledging and venting burning, illogical rage takes more work! In other words: it's a strain to realize that occasionally hurting others is a key component of healing your emotional self.
    Wonderful description.

    Also, preserving autonomy partially is achieved by flexing to someone else's emotions. To release OUR emotions is to give up some control of our freedom... because the other person is bound to have some sort of reaction that will enmesh us for an indefinite duration. (The best way to preserve independence is to not motivate others to chase after us or force interactions with us... which invariably happens if we anger or hurt someone by expressing our own feelings.)

    But there is a price to this freedom, as you describe. It costs us not only our own healing but sometimes also deprives others of our involvement. Sometimes there is no choice but to engage, if it's the best long-term solution, and allow emotions to play themselves out.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  7. #37
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    IxFx is not in your nature old boy. ESFJ is. First we walk, then we run (not meant to sound patronising but I couldn't recall the much superior quote I was trying to remember...sorry).
    That reminds me of another weird thing that happens to me with some INTP's. There were a couple who would alternate between being really standoffish and rather clingy, contacting me to talk (or asking why I hadn't contacted them), and then not having any particular subject ready, expecting me to come up with something. They despised social conventions, and one actually thanked me for remembering not to start my conversation with hello or end it with goodbye (I wonder if they ever saw the irony in that?)

    Another thing I see them doing a lot is presenting a situation in their lives in such a clearly sad and needy way that they elicit sympathy, and then complaining that they didn't want any. Yet if you don't show them any sympathy at all, they start to get frustrated with you although they don't express it. If you give it to them, they complain about it, but sometimes eventually appreciate it. If you validate their feelings without making it sound like validating, sometimes they balk and sometimes they accept it.

    They are very idiosyncratic and individualistic. You have to really try to understand that particular INTP very carefully in order to figure out how to deal with their emotions, if they haven't developed them well enough on their own.

  8. #38
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by htb View Post
    To cup your hands, or altogether?
    I forgot to cup my hands. But I can cup them now if you want.

  9. #39
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Why crawl on the floor? When the system requires you to crawl on the floor you have two options, to crawl or to move to a different system. Previously you chose the latter, why the change of behaviour? Surely the coffee cannot be that good, though on occasion I must admit I've crawled for similar but that's only when I really want the coffee and I really cannot be bothered to move to another system.
    You need coffee to move to a different system.
    When you have moved to a different system you need another cup of coffee.
    Coffee is Alpha and Omega.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Why crawl on the floor? When the system requires you to crawl on the floor you have two options, to crawl or to move to a different system. Previously you chose the latter, why the change of behaviour? Surely the coffee cannot be that good, though on occasion I must admit I've crawled for similar but that's only when I really want the coffee and I really cannot be bothered to move to another system.
    You need coffee to move to a different system.
    When you have moved to a different system you need another cup of coffee.
    Coffee is Alpha and Omega.
    Except that coffee is, as wildcat says, a very important element before making any move towards any direction, things are not usually as simple as to or crawl either move to a different system. If your objective is to simply have a coffee and the system is relatively good on the whole, then you just do what you have to do to achieve the goal. If you want to change system anyways but you need what you can get from the existent system before making the move, then you do again what the system requires you to do.
    It is called: play with their rules to take what you need from them.

    On a side note, I can't say I'd crawl, but I certainly could go on great lengths in order to have my coffee. Especially if it's the morning coffee.

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