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  1. #91
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    I have lost more than a piece.
    Needless to say the police is worthless.
    They do nothing to find my stolen goods.

    Lost more than a piece

    Me thinks Confucius is confusing himself with a goldfish
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  2. #92
    a white iris elfinchilde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    I am not wise.

    How do I become wise?
    hardly. life is an ever ascending spiral though, as was noted by Hawthorne.

    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    I have lost more than a piece.
    Needless to say the police is worthless.
    They do nothing to find my stolen goods.
    shall we flip the perspective, meowie? you have lost nothing. it is just that there is more to gain.

    and being different is simply this: one'd always see differently, feel differently. but it's different facets of the same crystal. no one facet is worth more, or less. It just is. Acceptance is key. (Ginsberg--from the poem Naomi, "allen, the key is in the sunlight by the window.")
    You gave me hyacinths first a year ago;
    They called me the hyacinth girl.
    Yet when we came back, late, from the Hyacinth garden,
    Your arms full, and your hair wet, I could not
    Speak, and my eyes failed, I was neither
    Living nor dead, and I knew nothing,
    Looking into the heart of light, the silence.

    --T.S Eliot, The Wasteland

  3. #93
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    Sorry I'm late to this thread. I was only able to sit down and read the second half today.

    A couple points:

    Seems to me that you guys are mostly talking about Fe, and not Fi. To me, there's a big difference. Thus, the chore of measuring an INTP's feelings is going to be complicated by whether one uses an Fe yardstick or an Fi yardstick.

    Also you have to factor in "stressed-Fe" feelings, which are still Fe. In other words when an INTP gets caustic and irritable, as an observer I personally may still choose to register that as an official "Feeling" event.

    So the end result is that I personally tend to see INTPs as fairly emotional creatures. The Fe comes across a bit foreign-smelling to me (as an Fi observer), but it makes it that much easier for me to sense it. And a lot of the emotion is appearing particularly when INTPs are stressed (since Fe is their Inferior), but that's still emotion to me.

    To spell it out:

    In real life, many INTPs (but not all) simply shut down and stare blankly when emotions come into play. But over at INTP-C where anonymity provides a buffer (and here at MBTI-C as well to some extent), there's no shutdown. Instead there are a half-dozen or more variations of Fe in play. INTPs who are in good touch with their Fe will exhibit "unstressed-Fe" in terms of varying degrees of good-natured humor, encouragement, understanding, empathy, warmth, and even saccharine sweetness (as registered by my Fi). Those who aren't much in touch with their Inferior function give off "stressed-Fe" in terms of varying degrees of mildly jibing humor, prickliness, ridicule, causticness, and even bullying (as registered by my Fi)

    Since INTPs like to test each other a bit (Ti analysis & Ne playfulness), there's a lot of low-level conflict occurring over at INTP-C, which in turn generates a constant "odor" of "stressed-Fe" there. Hence I sometimes describe INTP-C as having a caustic atmosphere.

    But I wouldn't describe INTP-C as emotion-free. Quite the opposite. All that caustic stressed-Fe (as well as a lesser amount of relaxed unstressed-Fe) over there at INTP-C makes me register INTP board members as rather histrionic and emotional.

    If you want an example of a genuinely emotion-free atmosphere, INTJ-Central comes much closer to a clean, clear, Feeling-free atmosphere, based on the little bit of time that I've visited there. [Edit:] (The possible exception to the INTJ no-feeling rule would be that loopy brand of INTJ humor, which is probably a characteristic of those INTJs who have developed their Inferior Se.)

  4. #94
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FineLine View Post
    If you want an example of a genuinely emotion-free atmosphere, INTJ-Central comes much closer to a clean, clear, Feeling-free atmosphere, based on the little bit of time that I've visited there. [Edit:] (The possible exception to the INTJ no-feeling rule would be that loopy brand of INTJ humor, which is probably a characteristic of those INTJs who have developed their Inferior Se.)
    Hmmm, that is very very interesting to me... When I am on INTJForums (I don't really go back much anymore because of what I am about to say), I usually feel like it is sort of cold and sterile, flavorless, and everything tastes the same. Not a lot of affection or affectation.

    Put another way, it doesn't feel very friendly to me. It just felt very homogenous and very "bleached out" in terms of feeling.

    Do you think this is the same thing as you are describing, except I am parsing it through Fe instead of Fi?
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Hmmm, that is very very interesting to me... When I am on INTJForums (I don't really go back much anymore because of what I am about to say), I usually feel like it is sort of cold and sterile, flavorless, and everything tastes the same. Not a lot of affection or affectation.

    Put another way, it doesn't feel very friendly to me. It just felt very homogenous and very "bleached out" in terms of feeling.

    Do you think this is the same thing as you are describing, except I am parsing it through Fe instead of Fi?
    Hmm. Good point. You describe the INTJForums more negatively than me, so yes it seems that your Fe is registering it a little differently.

    I found it more of a neutral experience. I felt that INTJForums was lacking passion driving the members' convictions (compared to the way that Fi drives my own convictions). So I was having trouble getting the feel for why INTJs placed emphasis on certain things and not others. It made for a bit of vertigo at times.

    But that kind of passion is perhaps a more subtle thing, so it just made the atmosphere feel a bit odd to me. But not necessarily negative. I had the feeling that if I stuck around long enough, I would get the rhythm eventually. I have been just too lazy to make the effort thus far.

    FWIW.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by FineLine View Post
    I found it more of a neutral experience. I felt that INTJForums was lacking passion driving the members' convictions (compared to the way that Fi drives my own convictions). So I was having trouble getting the feel for why INTJs placed emphasis on certain things and not others. It made for a bit of vertigo at times.
    One other thing:

    INTJs express themselves via Auxiliary Te, and I have pretty good use of my Inferior Te. So that aspect of the message board was recognizable and comfortable for me. (I work around INTJs in the workplace.)

    For INTPs, on the other hand, Te is a shadow function. So the Te mode of expression might conceivably give INTJForums a more foreign feel for INTPs.

  7. #97
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FineLine View Post
    For INTPs, on the other hand, Te is a shadow function. So the Te mode of expression might conceivably give INTJForums a more foreign feel for INTPs.
    I know for me, Te is very cold and empty and sterile, and I get exhausted when I use it. It just holds little native interest for me.

    I think this is why i found the ideas empty as well. They were all about someone's Te-styled ideas founded in their own arbitrarily chosen framework (Ni), so there wasn't much that was personal about it, and there wasn't much that seemed derived from reality about it, and I didn't sense any Fi-style values like you mention, it was all about Te and what could be worked out... and very rigidly so.

    (Note: I mean that less as a criticism and more as simply a candid description of its impact on me personally.)
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I know for me, Te is very cold and empty and sterile, and I get exhausted when I use it. It just holds little native interest for me.

    I think this is why i found the ideas empty as well. They were all about someone's Te-styled ideas founded in their own arbitrarily chosen framework (Ni), so there wasn't much that was personal about it, and there wasn't much that seemed derived from reality about it, and I didn't sense any Fi-style values like you mention, it was all about Te and what could be worked out.
    I've learned to get a lot of mileage out of Te. It functions in the real world and gives me all kinds of "crutches" and "gimmicks" and "tricks" for making life more efficient and easier and more productive, and "yardsticks" and "guidelines" and "frameworks" for measuring and prioritizing and arriving at equitable decisions quickly.

    I love Te. I've come to have a new appreciation for ENTJs and ESTJs. I study them carefully when I run into them. They're my new heroes.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    (Note: I mean that less as a criticism and more as simply a candid description of its impact on me personally.)
    Understood. My should be taken in the same vein.

  10. #100
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    Te usually turns me into a self righteous, know it all prig whenever I let it get any kind of a lead on me. I try very hard to recognize when this happening, but of course it can be hard at times. I try to ensure that Te is a tool for me, not me a tool of Te! I have seen some fairly hard assed examples of Te run amok, I don't want to allow myself to become that. I think it is a real challenge for the older INFP to balance it all out.

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