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  1. #391
    Senior Member miked277's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    One might argue that most type conflict is caused by people failing to recognize the use of other types(just look at BlueWing). In light of this, I muse that there are hardly any two types that should be more able to recognize the usefulness of one another than INTPs and INTJs.
    aye, for me at least this has been one of the greatest insights mbti has provided... showing me that everyone has the potential to be useful, interesting and just generally worth getting to know.

  2. #392
    Senior Member Priam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    It's really dumb. One might argue that most type conflict is caused by people failing to recognize the use of other types(just look at BlueWing). In light of this, I muse that there are hardly any two types that should be more able to recognize the usefulness of one another than INTPs and INTJs.
    To my mind the conflict rests upon the pragmatic/theoretical divide. There are no other types with the ability to be so ruthless and planned-necessity driven than INTJs and no type so attached to pie-in-the-sky ideas and debates as an INTP, which can lead to a massive tension. In an ideal world, INTPs appreciate the drive to get things done, and to do so in an intelligent and efficient manner, that an INTJ brings to the table; the INTJ appreciates an INTPs ability to build theoretical structures that can underpin their projects and goals, helping to create long-term strength and viability. In the worst possible world, well... the conversation doesn't get too far past "absent-minded professor/waste of space" and "wannabe supervillain/egomaniac".
    "The subject chooses to sit in shadow and search for wisdom by reflecting upon his trial. The problem is not that he is cold and wet, but that cold and wet seems problematic, so he embraces those hardships in order to best them."

  3. #393
    Senior Member Uytuun's Avatar
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    I think that's too black an white. We are more pragmatic, but we certainly aren't devoid from pie-in-the-sky moments and a love for theory, fantasy and pure imagination. We live in our heads first and foremost, what happens to the outside world is not a goal in itself. I find the INTP theorises INTJ executes dynamic to be fairly reductive in that it mostly emphasises INTJ Te (and INTP Ti?).

  4. #394
    Senior Member Priam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uytuun View Post
    I think that's too black an white. We are more pragmatic, but we certainly aren't devoid from pie-in-the-sky moments and a love for theory, fantasy and pure imagination. We live in our heads first and foremost, what happens to the outside world is not a goal in itself. I find the INTP theorises INTJ executes dynamic to be fairly reductive in that it mostly emphasises INTJ Te (and INTP Ti?).
    It is indeed reductive, which is rather the point I was driving at. We are not only those things, even when considered as archetypes, but those pieces tend to be where I see the most conflict between the two particular types. Especially when overemphasized on both sides.
    "The subject chooses to sit in shadow and search for wisdom by reflecting upon his trial. The problem is not that he is cold and wet, but that cold and wet seems problematic, so he embraces those hardships in order to best them."

  5. #395
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I try to stay out of the hostilities. I still get dragged in sometimes.
    Well, INTJ-lover! We know what side you are on when the revolution comes!

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    One of my brothers is an INTJ, and I have lived most of my life with a cold impression of him. It's only improved in the time that I have been living with him and his girlfriend. He's mean, and he has often left me baffled with his inability to respect talents other than his own.

    One time, I recall explaining to my mother what the contrasts were between an INTP and an INTJ, and I don't remember exactly what it is I said about INTPs, but my brother then piped in "Yeah, you're the people that mess everything up". He said it with a smile, but it was obvious that to some extent, he really believed it. I reflected on that with astonishment, wondering "if INTPs mess everything up, then what does he have to say about ESFPs?".
    It's true though. We mess things up all the time. We don't go along to get along. And if we do, we get stressed out and eventually really mess things up.

  6. #396
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    I love INTPs so much, I bury them in my crawlspace. There's a little toad who lives down there. You guys like toads.
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
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    EII-Fi subtype, Ethical/Empath, Delta/Beta
    RLUEI, Choleric/Melancholic
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    Researcher: VDI-P
    Dramatic>Sensitive>Serious

  7. #397
    Senior Member Uytuun's Avatar
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    It is indeed reductive, which is rather the point I was driving at. We are not only those things, even when considered as archetypes, but those pieces tend to be where I see the most conflict between the two particular types. Especially when overemphasized on both sides.
    Mwell, it's not about not only, it's about fundamentally not being that thing i.e. the executive. I can only speak for myself of course and I'm not the strongest J in the land.

    Ni vs. Ti seems to generate a lot of misunderstandings, though.

  8. #398
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    It's true though. We mess things up all the time. We don't go along to get along. And if we do, we get stressed out and eventually really mess things up.
    Everybody messes things up. They just go about messing up in different ways, and are perhaps more likely to mess up depending on what kind of situation they're dealing with. But in the universal sense(not the case by case sense) I'd say all the types are equally bungling.



    Quote Originally Posted by PinkPiranha View Post
    I love INTPs so much, I bury them in my crawlspace. There's a little toad who lives down there. You guys like toads.
    I do like toads! But I'm not sure about being buried... I can't really appreciate the toad if I'm dead.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  9. #399
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uytuun View Post
    Ni vs. Ti seems to generate a lot of misunderstandings, though.
    Ti is logical.

    Ni is wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Everybody messes things up. They just go about messing up in different ways, and are perhaps more likely to mess up depending on what kind of situation they're dealing with. But in the universal sense(not the case by case sense) I'd say all the types are equally bungling.
    We mess up others though in pretty spectacular ways. Sometimes without even realizing it!

  10. #400
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    We mess up others though in pretty spectacular ways. Sometimes without even realizing it!
    To represent the errors of the INTJ, I will use my favorite of my brother's bad habits. If he bothers to help someone with a problem(which is not a pretty site to begin with) he often tackles the problem with such certainty that he doesn't bother asking questions. This results in him "fixing" a problem that no one actually had, and then walking away without a moment's notice. Not surprisingly, whenever he does this, he has to come back later to fix the real problem. He's usually even more angry then, but he really has no one to be angry at but himself.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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