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Thread: Being INTP

  1. #11
    ReflecTcelfeR
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    Retract your claws. I'm sure this severe isolationalism that you feel is more common than you perceive, thus plenty of people relate to you. However, I wish you to see the irony, if you haven't already (it seems you have). The ones you call mindless, consider you the exact same way and find proof, just as you have, that you are base and unfitting for this society and are in the way of it and its processes. They would vehemently deny your position as you would theirs, but each has what it defines as logical proof and so no one can win. Conformity is not completely illogical either. Forming groups allowed the majority of us to survive for many years (if you consider this to be a good thing)... since the creation of this world. Critical thinking is useless without any power to form it into shape, and so complaining is also useless unless you can change it. If you are as angry as you appear then do something about it.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by IntrovertedThinker View Post
    People are different.
    Accepting this fact must mean that their is a purpose to this mindlessness that you despise and therefore objectively making it worth something. I won't edit it because even if my logic is flawed this logic does not disappear, because others who you consider to be mindless will use this approach to overthrow your position just as I did.

  3. #13
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    I love how the rest of you see it as a sign of maturity to accept diversity, difference of personality, and how society (or the "real world") it to be conformed to and mindlessly accepted.
    Maturity is realizing what is in your best interest and acting on it. Many people conclude what is in their best interest is to assess their strengths and weaknesses and work to establish a lifestyle that plays to their strengths while developing their weakness.

    The blanket statement, "people are mindless" is foolishly short sighted, not productive, and if you want to go logical, it is false, as you are a person.

    Dealing with cashiers or anybody else can be frustrating to NT's and we can certainly extrapolate our frustration out of the emotion of the frustration, but to argue people are mindless is foolish. It can be lonely not identifying with others and basing self worth on feelings of intellectual superiority is one way of dealing with perceived social isolation. I don't know you well enough to say for sure you do this, this thread makes it appear as if you do.

    As a coping method, intellectual narcisism isn't productive; it doesn't move you forward. You may be convinced you are correct and logically coherent, but the nature of the human animal is such that it takes more than that to thrive. And unless you're a subsistence farmer, you rely on others materially. Like it or not, you rely on others emotionally as well, you are actively seeking social validation of your worldview on the thread.

    Given that you have to interact with people to fulfil your needs and social skills are a weakness of yours, it would be in your best interest to seek to develop your social skills. Especially if you aspire to do more than menial labor, which you could because you obviously are intelligent.

    It is a fallacy to assume that getting out of your comfort zone and engaging the world requires you to compromise your personal integrity. In fact, seeking out why people do what they do is a good way to find a richer, more enjoyable life which ultimately is more in your interest than being right and logically coherent.

    I say all this because I sympathize and I care, for better or for worse.

  4. #14
    Senior Member human101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suttree View Post
    Maturity is realizing what is in your best interest and acting on it. Many people conclude what is in their best interest is to assess their strengths and weaknesses and work to establish a lifestyle that plays to their strengths while developing their weakness.

    The blanket statement, "people are mindless" is foolishly short sighted, not productive, and if you want to go logical, it is false, as you are a person.

    Dealing with cashiers or anybody else can be frustrating to NT's and we can certainly extrapolate our frustration out of the emotion of the frustration, but to argue people are mindless is foolish. It can be lonely not identifying with others and basing self worth on feelings of intellectual superiority is one way of dealing with perceived social isolation. I don't know you well enough to say for sure you do this, this thread makes it appear as if you do.

    As a coping method, intellectual narcisism isn't productive; it doesn't move you forward. You may be convinced you are correct and logically coherent, but the nature of the human animal is such that it takes more than that to thrive. And unless you're a subsistence farmer, you rely on others materially. Like it or not, you rely on others emotionally as well, you are actively seeking social validation of your worldview on the thread.

    Given that you have to interact with people to fulfil your needs and social skills are a weakness of yours, it would be in your best interest to seek to develop your social skills. Especially if you aspire to do more than menial labor, which you could because you obviously are intelligent.

    It is a fallacy to assume that getting out of your comfort zone and engaging the world requires you to compromise your personal integrity. In fact, seeking out why people do what they do is a good way to find a richer, more enjoyable life which ultimately is more in your interest than being right and logically coherent.

    I say all this because I sympathize and I care, for better or for worse.
    +1

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by suttree View Post
    Maturity is realizing what is in your best interest and acting on it. Many people conclude what is in their best interest is to assess their strengths and weaknesses and work to establish a lifestyle that plays to their strengths while developing their weakness.

    The blanket statement, "people are mindless" is foolishly short sighted, not productive, and if you want to go logical, it is false, as you are a person.

    Dealing with cashiers or anybody else can be frustrating to NT's and we can certainly extrapolate our frustration out of the emotion of the frustration, but to argue people are mindless is foolish. It can be lonely not identifying with others and basing self worth on feelings of intellectual superiority is one way of dealing with perceived social isolation. I don't know you well enough to say for sure you do this, this thread makes it appear as if you do.

    As a coping method, intellectual narcisism isn't productive; it doesn't move you forward. You may be convinced you are correct and logically coherent, but the nature of the human animal is such that it takes more than that to thrive. And unless you're a subsistence farmer, you rely on others materially. Like it or not, you rely on others emotionally as well, you are actively seeking social validation of your worldview on the thread.

    Given that you have to interact with people to fulfil your needs and social skills are a weakness of yours, it would be in your best interest to seek to develop your social skills. Especially if you aspire to do more than menial labor, which you could because you obviously are intelligent.

    It is a fallacy to assume that getting out of your comfort zone and engaging the world requires you to compromise your personal integrity. In fact, seeking out why people do what they do is a good way to find a richer, more enjoyable life which ultimately is more in your interest than being right and logically coherent.

    I say all this because I sympathize and I care, for better or for worse.

    +2, Brilliant words here Suttree

  6. #16
    Member IntrovertedThinker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suttree View Post
    Maturity is realizing what is in your best interest and acting on it. Many people conclude what is in their best interest is to assess their strengths and weaknesses and work to establish a lifestyle that plays to their strengths while developing their weakness.
    I disagree. For example, Jack Kevorkian disagree with his reasons for being put in jail, so he attempted to go a long while without eating to make a point. Eventually he gave in, but he did so reluctantly. Hence, when one's principles are violated, it's not necessarily wiser or "more mature" to simply give in and bend at the knees. Again, the words you speak are nothing more than the result of social conditioning which you've obviously bought into already. What is "mature" is an entirely socialized construct that really doesn't mean anything, as you use it. So nice try, but you fail to persuade.

    The blanket statement, "people are mindless" is foolishly short sighted, not productive, and if you want to go logical, it is false, as you are a person.
    1. How it is foolishly short sighted? Ironically, you're the one throwing around blanket statements. I explained what I meant by "mindless" and why I felt most people are indeed mindless. Couldn't you do the same and back up your statements?

    2. Who cares if it's not productive? It's a matter of principle. Here's where you fail to comprehend. And how does being a person make it logical? If it violates logical principles, it's obviously not logical, even if it's not productive. Hence, your logic fails.

    Dealing with cashiers or anybody else can be frustrating to NT's and we can certainly extrapolate our frustration out of the emotion of the frustration, but to argue people are mindless is foolish. It can be lonely not identifying with others and basing self worth on feelings of intellectual superiority is one way of dealing with perceived social isolation. I don't know you well enough to say for sure you do this, this thread makes it appear as if you do.
    Again, explain why it's foolish. You're throwing around blanket assertions which are highly biased and socialized viewpoints. Back it up, logically. I explained why I felt the statement is valid. Therefore, a proper refutation is necessary. Additionally, it's not a matter of narcissistic intellectual superiority. It's pretty much a fact that I have more creative intellectual ability/inclination than most people in society. Not only are NTs somewhat low in the population, but INTPs are entirely rare. Hence, most people are either feeling intuitives or sensing types who don't think in the abstract. Hence, the statement adds up and it really doesn't have anything to do with notions of unjustified superiority. It's just acknowledgment of an obvious fact. And "appearances" can be misleading, so you might want to watch it before making baseless assumptions next time.

    As a coping method, intellectual narcisism isn't productive; it doesn't move you forward. You may be convinced you are correct and logically coherent, but the nature of the human animal is such that it takes more than that to thrive. And unless you're a subsistence farmer, you rely on others materially. Like it or not, you rely on others emotionally as well, you are actively seeking social validation of your worldview on the thread.
    Again, there is no intellectual narcissism. The majority of people on the planet cannot think creatively in the abstract. In fact, if pressed to, they would resist, because abstract thinking is not their cup of tea. Hence, most NTs are inherently above the rest of humanity in terms of creative thinking and can see others as relatively mindless in this regard. And I'm not seeking social validation by having made this thread. That's a gross presumption of the highest degree, one I wouldn't expect from a fellow INTP nonetheless, if anyone, and it's quite depressing. Shame on you. I posted the thread to see if any other INTPs around here related to what I wrote. I thought it'd be nice to share what I wrote with others, because it's pretty interesting the way it's written. But again, nice try. All you guys are doing is making baseless assumptions and then throwing around condescending remarks that do nothing but make the situation worse. If you don't agree with my usage of the word "mindless," that's fine. But don't assume I'm automatically unjustified for seeing things that way. You aren't at all philosophical when you just mindlessly throw around the word "foolish" without providing support for your statement. Did it ever occur to you that you could be projecting your own personal social perceptions onto me? Ding dong.

    Given that you have to interact with people to fulfil your needs and social skills are a weakness of yours, it would be in your best interest to seek to develop your social skills. Especially if you aspire to do more than menial labor, which you could because you obviously are intelligent.
    Well, that's a sad fact, isn't it? The social structure is set up in such a way that it's difficult for people with less developed social skills and coping abilities to really get by. It's every man for himself, and people who are perceived as leisurely, too introverted, too focused on mindless speculation, and generally incapable of overlooking their principles to conform have a very difficult time actually finding a niche. Hence, the social structure is simply inherently stupid and irrational. Some of us INTPs manage to develop our social skills and are given room to actually get used to society. But for some NT's, we aren't given that room and our social skills don't flourish. And then we simply continue to rebel against everything. And obviously I'm okay with never really getting along with others. It's just a frustrating aspect of social life to never really want to give in.

    It is a fallacy to assume that getting out of your comfort zone and engaging the world requires you to compromise your personal integrity. In fact, seeking out why people do what they do is a good way to find a richer, more enjoyable life which ultimately is more in your interest than being right and logically coherent.
    How doesn't conforming to a stupid social structure compromise an intelligent person's principles, if they inherently disagree with that social structure? That makes no sense. Being right and coherently logical is the highest aim of life for many INTP's, especially me. And I could give a damn about finding richer ways of living, if that means I must overlook logical coherence and intellectual righteousness.

    I say all this because I sympathize and I care, for better or for worse.
    Yeah, sure. You made a number of baseless assumptions and then proceeded to throw around your own socialized viewpoints on the matter. So don't be too surprised if I remain skeptical of this last statement.

  7. #17
    Member IntrovertedThinker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_World_As_Will View Post
    +2, Brilliant words here Suttree
    Jerk other people off on your own time, pal.
    There's already enough ass-kissing in the world as it is.

  8. #18
    ReflecTcelfeR
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    I think one of the central issues is with the fact that you talk like the INTP way is the only way in which to truly live. I think some find this statement to be 'vain' and slightly close-minded. This is only what I'm perceiving though. You remark the superiority of the NT's as a fact many times, which is intuitively taken as "Everyone elses way is wrong or a lesser way of living." when such a statement doesn't make sense, because I see wrong as 'not surviving' and those who do not use our way of thinking have survived thus these 16 primary patterns of thinking have survived. This is what I'm understanding the opposition against you to be. I don't know if this information brought to light changes your perception of the situation or not, but it's what I'm seeing.

  9. #19
    Member IntrovertedThinker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecttcelfeR View Post
    I think one of the central issues is with the fact that you talk like the INTP way is the only way in which to truly live. I think some find this statement to be 'vain' and slightly close-minded. This is only what I'm perceiving though. You remark the superiority of the NT's as a fact many times, which is intuitively taken as "Everyone elses way is wrong or a lesser way of living." when such a statement doesn't make sense, because I see wrong as 'not surviving' and those who do not use our way of thinking have survived thus these 16 primary patterns of thinking have survived. This is what I'm understanding the opposition against you to be. I don't know if this information brought to light changes your perception of the situation or not, but it's what I'm seeing.
    I might talk like whatever you want to see me talk like, but still waters run deep. I never said the INTP way of life is the only way to live. I said I have principles that can be violated, many of which aren't congruent with the social structure. Hence, the dilemma. And how can you say that some find this to be vain and slightly close-minded, if it's not based on anything I said, but you somehow misconstruing what I'm saying based on some notions you're entirely reading in between the lines, which aren't even there in the first place? I never said the INTP way of life is superior or the only way to live. If that's what you've taken from everything I've written, you need to go back to school.

    And no, I never said NT's are superior. I said it's pretty much obvious that NT's are more likely to actually think creatively, which is how I meant that most people are "mindless" (in that I meant that they don't think creatively). I don't see how it's a hard notion to understand, at all. It's fairly simple.

    So, that's what you're seeing? You're seeing wrong.
    Hence, why I'm done with this site the moment you guys let this thread go.
    Zpowers pretty much ruined this thread by asserting notions of arrogance where they didn't really exist. What a [most intriguing individual with great hair].
    Last edited by Ivy; 08-18-2010 at 06:12 PM. Reason: removed insult

  10. #20
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    I was also not persecuting you so calm down. Don't pick fights with people who don't want to fight. You can't tell me I'm wrong simply because you don't know why the other people don't understand you, and to call me wrong because of my intelligence has nothing to do with this thread so you can stop that too. I would also mention that hardly anyone is understanding your point, this means that the link in communication could lie somewhere with you and not us. Don't blame the pupil for his ignorance, blame the teacher.

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