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[ENTJ] Help!

Vie

Giggity
Joined
Jun 9, 2010
Messages
792
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
8
I know that there are several ENTJ threads going on right now and some of them do have to do with relationships -- but from what I've gathered, nearly all of us when in a romantic situation become...clingy.

I haven't really dated around and when I do, I find myself becoming so wrapped up in that person that I can't focus on anything else. It's not creepy stalkerish, more of...they are always on my mind. I'm curious as to if this is, once again, a personal fault or something that other people have noticed happens to them.

I replay conversations in my head with that person, continually questioning what I did wrong and how to fix it -- even if there isn't anything wrong. I become paranoid when they don't call back or text, even if they are busy -- therefore texting more and more until then I do come across as a fucking loon.

I also have the bad habit of become angry when my expectations aren't met -- even if I never told them my expectations. I expect them to know what I want and to follow through and when they don't (of course they don't) I become either a) livid or b) depressed.

How do you deal with it, if you have had this feeling?
Any advice is welcome as I really don't want to lose this person again (which I seem to already be doing. Again.)
 

suttree

New member
Joined
Jul 28, 2010
Messages
231
MBTI Type
intP
Breathe, calm yourself down. Assume the best. Set up the next time yall are going out and then dont dwell on it. Cultivate your Se, enjoy the moments youre with them and don't get caught up in the possibilities of what might be.

I am not qualified to give relationshipping advice, but there's some anyway.
 
R

ReflecTcelfeR

Guest
I know that there are several ENTJ threads going on right now and some of them do have to do with relationships -- but from what I've gathered, nearly all of us when in a romantic situation become...clingy.

I haven't really dated around and when I do, I find myself becoming so wrapped up in that person that I can't focus on anything else. It's not creepy stalkerish, more of...they are always on my mind. I'm curious as to if this is, once again, a personal fault or something that other people have noticed happens to them.

I replay conversations in my head with that person, continually questioning what I did wrong and how to fix it -- even if there isn't anything wrong. I become paranoid when they don't call back or text, even if they are busy -- therefore texting more and more until then I do come across as a fucking loon.

I also have the bad habit of become angry when my expectations aren't met -- even if I never told them my expectations. I expect them to know what I want and to follow through and when they don't (of course they don't) I become either a) livid or b) depressed.

How do you deal with it, if you have had this feeling?
Any advice is welcome as I really don't want to lose this person again (which I seem to already be doing. Again.)

How long have you been with him, or been seeing him?
 

Redbone

Orisha
Joined
Apr 27, 2010
Messages
2,882
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
I can only speak as an observer and it may or may not help.

My oldest sister is ENTJ and I noticed a common thread in all of her relationships.

She has a very clear idea of what she want the relationship to be and how things should work. She proceeds to work toward that goal without even clearly articulating to her partner what she is trying to achieve. If things are not on course enough for her, she proceeds to use force to achieve her goals. Intimidation, deliberate confrontations, criticism, and 'laying down the law'. She wants the relationship to WORK and it can blind her to what methods she is using to achieve that.

What is really amazing is that she couldn't understand what was wrong about this. When I pointed that her partner didn't see what she saw, she snarled, "Why not?" Now, I can understand it--she saw what their relationship could be and she wanted to get there. She saw the way and went for it. Partner perceives it as her being a castrating, controlling bitch and proceeds to move on. She has finally come to understand that it really okay to relinquish some of her control and to sometimes swim with the current instead of trying to change the course of the river.

I think it takes someone special to understand female ENTJs. Along with other female NTs, we kind of lie outside the spectrum of what is feminine to a lot of people. It's not easy at all and can put us in a bad frame in a relationship.

I think you'll get there. :hug:
 

Vie

Giggity
Joined
Jun 9, 2010
Messages
792
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
8
How long have you been with him, or been seeing him?

On and off again for about four years.

I've decided that I just need to go with the flow -- but I don't even know where to begin to do that, bahah. I become so confrontational when he doesn't do/say what I want him to -- even though he isn't doing anything wrong.

Even though he says I've changed, I can tell he's still weary about me. I am an honest person and I feel that if I'm honest or vulnerable with him that he will use it against me (like he did in the past) and I can't ever go through that again.

The unfortunate thing about it is, I've become really flippant about our "relationship" as though it means nothing. I can tell it bothers him -- but isn't flippant the way to be!? I appreciate honest feelings (and him typed as an INTP, I'm sure he does too), but I really don't know if that's the best call here.
 

Vie

Giggity
Joined
Jun 9, 2010
Messages
792
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
8
I can only speak as an observer and it may or may not help.

My oldest sister is ENTJ and I noticed a common thread in all of her relationships.

She has a very clear idea of what she want the relationship to be and how things should work. She proceeds to work toward that goal without even clearly articulating to her partner what she is trying to achieve. If things are not on course enough for her, she proceeds to use force to achieve her goals. Intimidation, deliberate confrontations, criticism, and 'laying down the law'. She wants the relationship to WORK and it can blind her to what methods she is using to achieve that.

What is really amazing is that she couldn't understand what was wrong about this. When I pointed that her partner didn't see what she saw, she snarled, "Why not?" Now, I can understand it--she saw what their relationship could be and she wanted to get there. She saw the way and went for it. Partner perceives it as her being a castrating, controlling bitch and proceeds to move on. She has finally come to understand that it really okay to relinquish some of her control and to sometimes swim with the current instead of trying to change the course of the river.

I think it takes someone special to understand female ENTJs. Along with other female NTs, we kind of lie outside the spectrum of what is feminine to a lot of people. It's not easy at all and can put us in a bad frame in a relationship.

I think you'll get there. :hug:

EXACTLY. The last time I was with him, I was SO CONTROLLING it was literally sickening.

Yet tonight when I was talking to him he called me the exact opposite, telling me I let people walk over me (especially those who resemble Hugh Laurie, which he does). And it's true. I knew what I was doing wrong last time, so I "let him" control me -- yet, I'm manipulating him into thinking that.
 
R

ReflecTcelfeR

Guest
On and off again for about four years.

I've decided that I just need to go with the flow -- but I don't even know where to begin to do that, bahah. I become so confrontational when he doesn't do/say what I want him to -- even though he isn't doing anything wrong.

Does he not do what you want on purpose, do you think he does?

Even though he says I've changed, I can tell he's still weary about me. I am an honest person and I feel that if I'm honest or vulnerable with him that he will use it against me (like he did in the past) and I can't ever go through that again.

The unfortunate thing about it is, I've become really flippant about our "relationship" as though it means nothing. I can tell it bothers him -- but isn't flippant the way to be!? I appreciate honest feelings (and him typed as an INTP, I'm sure he does too), but I really don't know if that's the best call here.

Do you not value the relationship anymore? If so, do you think you can get over that? If you can't it may be time to call it quits. I'm sure I have only .5% of the whole story, so this may not be helping at all.
 

Vie

Giggity
Joined
Jun 9, 2010
Messages
792
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
8
Does he not do what you want on purpose, do you think he does?



Do you not value the relationship anymore? If so, do you think you can get over that? If you can't it may be time to call it quits. I'm sure I have only .5% of the whole story, so this may not be helping at all.


I think he's testing me, seeing where I'm at and if I can keep in control of my emotions. Therefore, I try to have COMPLETE control of my emotions (by not having any) when I'm with him so I pass his "test".

I've never valued anything more than I do than my relationship with him. That's the problem, I think.
 
R

ReflecTcelfeR

Guest
Hmmm... I'd say that perhaps you have given him a little too much control. I don't know your normal state of being, but this seems like an extremely altered version of it. If you feel something show it! Don't give him control of what makes you, you. I don't know though.
 

Vie

Giggity
Joined
Jun 9, 2010
Messages
792
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
8
As an INTP, do you at times become emotionally...stonewall? Like I've seen him be there for me and lets me see the real him. But it seems as though he is trying to prove something to me as well by this....lack of a better word, wall.

For example. A guy sent me flowers and I had no idea who. He asked me, "Who sent YOU flowers?" "I was just as surprised as you, don't worry." "You obviously know it wasn't me...are you dating anyone?" "No, I don't date." "What?" "I see people, I don't date."
"Oh right. You don't date, you see people, and oh wait there is that kid I occasionally f***." Then for the next couple days, he was real short with me.

I wasn't quite sure what to say to this, but to me it seemed as though he was slightly hurt. I don't really know as in the four years I've known him, I still don't have him pegged. You INTPs stump me, bahaha.

The part that makes me so clingy and irrationally attached is because I don't know what it is that he wants or where he sees this going -- or how I should go about confronting him about it. If I push too hard, it seems that he shuts down emotionally. Rather frightening actually.
 

Lucas

New member
Joined
Jun 26, 2010
Messages
108
MBTI Type
INTP
The part that makes me so clingy and irrationally attached is because I don't know what it is that he wants or where he sees this going -- or how I should go about confronting him about it. If I push too hard, it seems that he shuts down emotionally. Rather frightening actually.

Not sure how to address the rest, but this seems straightforward. When you push the issue, it probably seems to him like you are trying to force him to come to a decision on something he has not fully thought out yet. So he refuses to engage in order to buy time to think.

The best way to engage may be to just explore the question, and provide whatever opinion you have, explaining why, and trying to get him to respond to bits and pieces, rather than requiring him to produce a coherent whole. That way you will be able to piece together at least a bit of what he thinks.
 
R

ReflecTcelfeR

Guest
As an INTP, do you at times become emotionally...stonewall? Like I've seen him be there for me and lets me see the real him. But it seems as though he is trying to prove something to me as well by this....lack of a better word, wall.

For example. A guy sent me flowers and I had no idea who. He asked me, "Who sent YOU flowers?" "I was just as surprised as you, don't worry." "You obviously know it wasn't me...are you dating anyone?" "No, I don't date." "What?" "I see people, I don't date."
"Oh right. You don't date, you see people, and oh wait there is that kid I occasionally f***." Then for the next couple days, he was real short with me.

I wasn't quite sure what to say to this, but to me it seemed as though he was slightly hurt. I don't really know as in the four years I've known him, I still don't have him pegged. You INTPs stump me, bahaha.

The part that makes me so clingy and irrationally attached is because I don't know what it is that he wants or where he sees this going -- or how I should go about confronting him about it. If I push too hard, it seems that he shuts down emotionally. Rather frightening actually.

I only 'stone wall' someone if I don't want to talk about what I'm feeling yet, out of lack of understanding, not to prove a point. His actions seem cruel. Judging you for who you are and statements like that, in my opinion, are only warranted if asked for, that just seems unnecessary. I see those statements as an extreme form of jealousy. I don't really know how I would've acted to those statements, maybe with casual disregard, but my second action would be an extreme burst of all the faults that I found in the other person. I would tell him that if he doesn't tell you what he wants then I'm not going to try and guess.
 

bcubchgo

New member
Joined
Jul 29, 2010
Messages
164
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
3w4
The part that makes me so clingy and irrationally attached is because I don't know what it is that he wants or where he sees this going -- or how I should go about confronting him about it. If I push too hard, it seems that he shuts down emotionally. Rather frightening actually.

At least he is still with you rather than abandoning you even if he is not totally forthcoming. I can sympathize with your predicament. While it might be emotionally confusing to be attracted to him because you feel like he is a puzzle you can solve - it would be much worse if he had decided to shut you down completely, for good. At least you probably have the ability to sit down and talk to him heart to heart. Still, it is difficult when you realize you are pushing somebody away with clingy and demanding behavior, since it is the natural way that you want to express affection, however neurotic it might appear. It's the ruse we all have to deal with.
 

Vie

Giggity
Joined
Jun 9, 2010
Messages
792
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
8
So how do I bring up honest issues without pushing him away as if I seem clingy?

That's the predicament I'm in -- because I know that if I say something that is considered clingy he will bolt or shut down.

I'm rather useless when it comes to these things -- the answer may be simple, and I'm just to romantically inept to know what it is.
 
R

ReflecTcelfeR

Guest
If he wants this relationship to work I'd imagine that 'honest' issues, any way they are brought up, should not scare him away.
 

bcubchgo

New member
Joined
Jul 29, 2010
Messages
164
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
3w4
So how do I bring up honest issues without pushing him away as if I seem clingy?

That's the predicament I'm in -- because I know that if I say something that is considered clingy he will bolt or shut down.

I'm rather useless when it comes to these things -- the answer may be simple, and I'm just to romantically inept to know what it is.

I think the best you can do is just be yourself without going over the top. Just don't completely suppress your inner nature if it doesn't seem true to yourself. However, if you find a calm and non-confrontational spot to work things out in, try that first. Sometimes it is hard to find the patience that you need to sit out for a while instead of accidentally bringing up an ENTJ emotion-based reaction. I don't know if I have the answer - if you try the above and he still isn't reacting well to you then I don't know if there is much else you can try. being patient is the key, most likely, even though that isn't always how we operate.
 
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