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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    No. It's not possible. It's a spectrum. You fall somewhere on that scale, naturally.
    IME, introverts don't usually have a problem knowing that they're introverts. Depressed or troubled extroverts sometimes think they are introverts, wrongly. This is where the common misunderstanding that introverts are broken comes from, IMO. Because an extrovert acting like an introvert is broken. E/I is a function of brain chemistry which is a function of genes (innate disposition) + environmental influences.
    Say you're a formula 1 car (extrovert); under optimum conditions, you perform like one. But put in the wrong fuel or forget maintenance and you'll start running like a Skoda Fabia (introvert - no offense ). A Skoda is never gonna run like an F1 though. But it's a bit more comfortable to make out in.
    I don't think it's just depression or being "troubled." I think it's the majority of the population being ESxx and wondering why the hell everyone doesn't want to be with other people all of the time. Also, apparently ENxJs are also more inclined to be more obvious extroverts.

    I think people with Ne/Fi and Ne/Ti do need to be alone more often because their creative auxillary function is a very introverted thing combined with having dominant iNtuition.

    People thinking introverts are broken is just an expectation of ESxx or Fe/Te doms projecting their sense of normality on to others.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Chloe's Avatar
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    ^

    This is totally true, and also very irritating. :steam:

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    No. It's not possible. It's a spectrum. You fall somewhere on that scale, naturally.
    IME, introverts don't usually have a problem knowing that they're introverts. Depressed or troubled extroverts sometimes think they are introverts, wrongly. This is where the common misunderstanding that introverts are broken comes from, IMO. Because an extrovert acting like an introvert is broken. E/I is a function of brain chemistry which is a function of genes (innate disposition) + environmental influences.
    Say you're a formula 1 car (extrovert); under optimum conditions, you perform like one. But put in the wrong fuel or forget maintenance and you'll start running like a Skoda Fabia (introvert - no offense ). A Skoda is never gonna run like an F1 though. But it's a bit more comfortable to make out in.
    This post is a good example on the I / E difference. An entp would never say "It's impossible" nor would he claim that a superficial theory like mbti can be taken as definite enough to separate the complex individuum, which is a human in just two letters.

    Plus that, if you outfit a Skoda with a Porsche engine, anything is possible

    Tho I am personally convinced an intp would think so too
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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    You know this is good, because asking someone if they get energy from being alone or with people is so vague and confusing...I tend to think, um, people often drain me, especially if I don't like them, so I vote alone...but using specific examples like getting energy from debating or engaging in activities ...like how entropie was talking about seeking new information on the Internet and in movies...or how I get a charge from seeing new places or going on "adventures" and feel dead if I get stuck into a rut for too long...it's not necessarily about being with a bunch of people.

    EDIT: It's like when I realized that a life of just writing would actually be very difficult for me. I think if I were a true introvert the idea of being alone with my own thoughts and creations would be exhilirating, rather than making me feel like if there were no regular feedback I'd feel...unmotivated...and isolated...hmmm strange thoughts for an introvert to have, huh? It really surprised me when I had that realization, because I thought I wanted to be a novelist.
    Yes, I just wouldnt take it too far. I for one do enjoy going new places seeing new scenaries but it takes me longer and the frequencies are not the same as some more extroverted friends of mine. But as a general concept of was the differences are I think its the best I can come up with now.

    Friends I consider extroverted dont neccesarily have a more engaging personality. It usually have to do with what your 1st and 2nd functions are more than anything. And when we talk specific people many scenarios can include people have thinking preferences first but having them so underdeveloped because they live in a 3rd world country or in an antiintullectual enviroment. And probably have had to work on the 2nd and 3rd function more to "survive" in his enviroment. Or you have the feeler child that has been bullied because they where too kind and therefore have a restrained relationship to his own functional preferences.

    Lexicon and I had a little talk about Fe on ventrilo, because people thinks shes an extroverted tendancy. But really its just Fe that she exumes. I see this more expressed in my ISFJ mother. She is also seen as an extrovert, but really she is not. She just exumes what is generally accepted as extroverted behavior, extroverted feeling, really well. But does that make her an extrovert? No it only goes to show that what we expect in others - even as a society, hence the extroverted feeling being the social accepted way of being extroverted - might be very different from what they specifically are function wise and temperament wise.

    Edit: About my friends being engaging: I have friends that are probably estj and some estp friends. If I should put them up against each other, Id have to say that I find my ESTP friends more socially engaging than my estj friends because Se is an extremely good enabler for social interactions. But if I look at my ENTP friend and compare him to the ESTPs he would look introverted because Ne dont have the same social value that Se does. But if I look at my esfp vs esfj friends my esfj friends seem much more socially engaging than the esfp! Its weird but in reality there is a socially accepted rule of engagement in all societies and they are usually the same.

    Extroverted feeling is the top function for social behavior, with Extroverted sensing second, thats how the world works. I havent given too much thought into the third highest function and so on. But thats my perspective on this.

    So to answer the OP question again: Look at the functions aswell, do you find that you fit the extroverted intuition more than introverted thinking? Because that is a strong indicator for if you are an introvert or extrovert

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    No. It's not possible. It's a spectrum. You fall somewhere on that scale, naturally.
    IME, introverts don't usually have a problem knowing that they're introverts. Depressed or troubled extroverts sometimes think they are introverts, wrongly. This is where the common misunderstanding that introverts are broken comes from, IMO. Because an extrovert acting like an introvert is broken. E/I is a function of brain chemistry which is a function of genes (innate disposition) + environmental influences.
    Say you're a formula 1 car (extrovert); under optimum conditions, you perform like one. But put in the wrong fuel or forget maintenance and you'll start running like a Skoda Fabia (introvert - no offense ). A Skoda is never gonna run like an F1 though. But it's a bit more comfortable to make out in.
    I think this is very true. Basically I take the view that people use their inferior functions more than they think they do. Like as I sketched up in the earlier post in this thread that the extroverted sensing thinking type might go from being socially engaging and energetic when talking practical objectively to depressed and lacking in energy when talking about his personal feelings, in a matter of a second.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post

    People thinking introverts are broken is just an expectation of ESxx or Fe/Te doms projecting their sense of normality on to others.
    I disagree. If that were the case, INs would feel the same way about ESs (and we don't). The "broken" perception comes from observing introverted behaviour and projecting a mental state (of one's own) that one associates with that behaviour. An ES would have to feel pretty crappy to be as withdrawn as an IN is naturally. Therefore, they assume that INs feel crappy. How could they do otherwise?
    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    This post is a good example on the I / E difference. An entp would never say "It's impossible" nor would he claim that a superficial theory like mbti can be taken as definite enough to separate the complex individuum, which is a human in just two letters.
    Wrong. I wasn't talking about MBTI. E/I is a scientifically valid concept (unlike MBTI which is mostly speculative). This is a good example of an entp jumping to conclusions rather than thinking something through properly.
    Plus that, if you outfit a Skoda with a Porsche engine, anything is possible
    You are still restricted by aerodynamics, so no, it's not. Besides which that would be analogous to a brain transplant, so I'm not sure what your point is.
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  7. #27
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    Interesting conversation.

    It reminds me of my dad, who is so clearly ESTP, and yet I remember him sincerely trying to tell me years ago he was an introvert. (Which is just so clearly not the case by the ways in which he prefers to interact.)

    But the alcohol addiction and/or complete disappointment in life has often led him to lead an isolated life, removing himself from human culture. And he assumed he must be introverted because he was lost in that morass, where his natural extroversion was very clear to those around him and he did appear "broken" to people and not his natural self in that withdraw and isolated state.

    In regards to personal IN perspectives on ES: I remember feeling more bad about myself when younger because I could sense the ES's judgment of me as "broken" because I wasn't like them. But I was always aware that, despite any of that image I struggled with, I was "okay as-is" and it was just that they didn't really understand me at all (which was a completely different kind of hurt)... and I don't remember feeling that something was wrong with them because they were ES. I could value them for that; I just wanted them off my case because their view of me was unfair and was causing me grief.
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    If you are in a situation that makes more use of your extroverted function you'd tend to feel more extroverted. And vice versa. Your focus would change.

  9. #29
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    Wrong. I wasn't talking about MBTI. E/I is a scientifically valid concept (unlike MBTI which is mostly speculative). This is a good example of an entp jumping to conclusions rather than thinking something through properly.
    I dont like the intp resoluteness with things. Rather than keeping an open-mind, things which are marked "scientific theory" are used for a resolute expression to describe things. Even if intps aint resolute in their thinking, the form you talk about it sucks and drives people away.

    For example you talk about E/I being the spectrum of things and I rather ask myself, why abide by that rule at all ? I am me an alone human being and E/I is a mere human definition to things by people I dont even like. So what am I trieing to accomplish here ? To find out more about me myself or to find out how I fit better into norms by a society I havent liked from the start.

    It's troubling for me to express and to taqlk correctly about those things, it's just those intp resoluteness in posts that brought me multiple infractions so far.

    You say depressed extroverts thing they are introverts some times. I rather think that people who would freely call themselves introvert or extroverts have a problem. Cause the longer you call yourself something the more you gonna believe in it for yourself. Isnt it just enough to be depressed at the moment, do we really need to justify that for us: it is because we are introvert, meaning god wanted us to be different and thats why I am depressed.

    I think of this kind of thinking to be very very dangerous and it results in people ignoring the real issues they are facing and rather justifieing it with hey i am introvert, i must be depressed.

    Well you didnt say all that, I just dont like intp resoluteness. Your pride in thinking things through so well, always has the cost that other people are left with no room for their ideas in immediate discussion.

    You are still restricted by aerodynamics, so no, it's not. Besides which that would be analogous to a brain transplant, so I'm not sure what your point is.
    Not true if you use a gas turbine
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    I rather think that people who would freely call themselves introvert or extroverts have a problem. Cause the longer you call yourself something the more you gonna believe in it for yourself. Isnt it just enough to be depressed at the moment, do we really need to justify that for us: it is because we are introvert, meaning god wanted us to be different and thats why I am depressed.
    I find it freeing to acknowledge that Im something specific, it makes me appreciate the times when Im not introverting. But if one says "Im introverted accept me as that" then yes I would say they have a problem. Typology should not be a comfort blanket but recognition of your faults and developement of those sides that you lack.

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