User Tag List

First 123 Last

Results 11 to 20 of 29

  1. #11
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    738
    Socionics
    ILE None
    Posts
    7,265

    Default

    I'm saying that's what humanity does. And stating the opposite is just delusional "i'm special because tv told me so" thinking.

    Internalizing social data as belonging to this or that individual when most of the data's way too fluid to be considered as such is just stupid.
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  2. #12
    resonance entropie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    entp
    Enneagram
    783
    Posts
    16,761

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    so entp are not creative because they're only more creative than average instead of inventing every single concept they come up with.

    If humans did that, it wouldn't have taken thousands of years to build a half descent civilization.
    *tips hat to my wise friend*

    That's the thing, if you would create invention statistics of what is a real invention and what not, there wont be much. Especially in engineering you can see that some things labeled as innovations are things invented far back in time and which come up again as being intresting later on. Regarding engineering its nearly always the demands that justify the needs, so there's a huge bunch of innovations just ending in the paper bin, cause you cant earn quickly money with it.

    Regarding the construction of things, the rule of thumb is: 20% are new constructions, 20 % are an alternative construction of an existing one and 60 % are modifications to an existing construction.

    To really invent something new that would be the holy grail to me personally and its definitly a thing I thrive for. But it's like hitting the lotteries jackpot and one shouldnt think of that as being ones main goal or you can end up dissapointed.

    What's another intresting thing is metaphysics. I thinkj what I mean is metaphysics, I am not so good at that. But there you have the deduction and induction principle and while deduction from latin deducere meaning deduce is according to some theories the thing a person does in 100% of the cases, inducere or induce would mean that they just came up with the idea.

    If you take that thought and expand it on all human evolution on this planet, what really is there of what you can say that must be a thing gained by induction. if you think for example about the combustion engine, you may say thats so way off, that had to be induced. But if you consider the steam engine aswell and how it came to the steam engine, you'll see its a process that started with very small parts, which in the end evolved to the whole.

    Same is it in physics, basically they stumble across a phenomena, which they didnt invent, but just noticed and now can use controlled and then they for example build an electronic component from it. The real thing then is to combine all this phanomena and create a huge weave on interconnected phanomena to realize some sort of function with. But is that again a real invention ? I dont think so.

    On thing that could be really close to induction is Einstein's relativity principle. That#s really so far off, it's hard to say that's deduced somehow. But again you cant take a look into Einstein's mind and clearly say what things he had learned in life that may in combination have led him to come up with his theory. One has to fairly say that the way he came up with his theory was bullshit. Later on after relativity on his way to find the all-explaining formula he came up with a wrong theory, this has a special name but I dont remember it. So at this point you see, this guy was doing a lot of good research in his life, but he wasnt like totally outstanding and extraordinary different from other scientists aswell. He just had a good idea and many things speak for an induced idea. I am so sure, if you'ld now his whole story a 100%, you'ld see how it was clearly deduced again.

    In regards to entp being copycats, I have to say yes. When I was new at my job I copied a lot of the behaviour of older colleges to get along better. This a thing I am not always fine with, it's the easy way to cope with things, but it changes your personality too and not always for the better. It's a thing I've to work on for myself in my life and watch that I dont get dragged into it too often.

    I think a strong thick-headed IJ has more chances to develop an outstanding personality in that regards.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  3. #13
    Junior Member ScentlessApprentice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    5-4
    Posts
    14

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    I'm saying that's what humanity does. And stating the opposite is just delusional "i'm special because tv told me so" thinking.
    That's not my point, there are tons of brilliant musicians, poets, and writers that have existed in our world. It's not about being different or "special", it's about the difference between real true artists and these knock-offs who rip off other people.
    5-4 INFP "The Idealist"

    If you want to find out what's behind these cold eyes, you'll just have to claw your way through this disguise.

  4. #14
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    738
    Socionics
    ILE None
    Posts
    7,265

    Default

    no artist, scientist, etc (human) can't be understood taken out of their cultural zeitgeist.
    We tend not to see that years later and make 'true genius' into something it isn't.*

    I stand by my first statement. Thats just 'tv told me i'm special and i internalized it' thinking.

    It's not that consciousness is experienced at the individual level rather than societal one that the individual is the most relevant part of progress etc rather than mostly macro scale / statistical trends.
    Take a single individual and it's statistically unlikely that they'll come up with anything significant, the relevant unit of measurement for creation are cultures.
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  5. #15
    Junior Member ScentlessApprentice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    5-4
    Posts
    14

    Default

    We tend not to see that years later and make 'true genius' into something it isn't.
    This is the failure of people and the crowd, not the artist themselves. Remember when Michael Jackson died? All of a sudden his music became intensely popular, and people started to view him as a legend, the same people that called him a child-molester the day before. This is an example of what you are saying, but to say that no one is special or unique, that's pushing it way too far.

    You become a brilliant musician like Mozart or Beethoven, and prove that everyone can be as creative as them, then I will believe you. But that's very ignorant to say that no one is special or different.

    And also, not many true artists follow this "TV told me I'm special" stuff. That's not fair to assume that people are trying to be different and act out because of that. Before you say that you should understand how some of these brilliant people actually think.
    5-4 INFP "The Idealist"

    If you want to find out what's behind these cold eyes, you'll just have to claw your way through this disguise.

  6. #16
    Senior Member InTheFlesh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Enneagram
    CFV
    Posts
    276

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ScentlessApprentice View Post
    That's not my point, there are tons of brilliant musicians, poets, and writers that have existed in our world. It's not about being different or "special", it's about the difference between real true artists and these knock-offs who rip off other people.
    I agree with this. Most of the true innovators and legends of music don't see themselves as such. For example, David Gilmour, Pink Floyd's lead guitar player and co-lead singer does not see himself as a legend or anything of the sort, although millions of people would argue he is, on account of his ground breaking style of playing and recording.
    It's when you find the "artists" that believe they're the most amazing thing since sliced bread that you find those who truly lack talent or originality. Someone like Miley Cirus for example, who just copies what's popular in the public eye.

    Those who are truly creative innovate and change the concept of what is normal, instead of just switching things around or playing what's popular.

    Sorry if that was somewhat jumbled, I'm getting tired.

  7. #17
    Junior Member ScentlessApprentice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    5-4
    Posts
    14

    Default

    It's when you find the "artists" that believe they're the most amazing thing since sliced bread that you find those who truly lack talent or originality. Someone like Miley Cirus for example, who just copies what's popular in the public eye.

    Those who are truly creative innovate and change the concept of what is normal, instead of just switching things around or playing what's popular.
    +1
    5-4 INFP "The Idealist"

    If you want to find out what's behind these cold eyes, you'll just have to claw your way through this disguise.

  8. #18
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    2
    Socionics
    ESI
    Posts
    9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Malcontent View Post
    Are ENTPs apt to copycat some behaviour, generally unusual and curious? Not just buy the same hat that lady gaga use... More complex and mentally stimulating things...
    Not sure if this applies, but I remember people by their tics and habits and replicate them myself to keep some memory of them alive in me. This is especially true of people I value. For example, I had a good friend a number of years ago who would drink most drinks (tea, etc.) with a spoon. After he left I found that I would also sip drinks with a spoon, a habit I had never found appealing before.

    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    In regards to entp being copycats, I have to say yes. When I was new at my job I copied a lot of the behaviour of older colleges to get along better. This a thing I am not always fine with, it's the easy way to cope with things, but it changes your personality too and not always for the better. It's a thing I've to work on for myself in my life and watch that I dont get dragged into it too often.
    I also suffer from this behaviour. I would liken myself to different members of the office, picking a different persona to act upon depending on the person in order to get along with everyone. It's the oddest thing and I wish I could just be myself, but I'm not sure where I fall anymore.

  9. #19
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    738
    Socionics
    ILE None
    Posts
    7,265

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ScentlessApprentice View Post
    This is the failure of people and the crowd, not the artist themselves. Remember when Michael Jackson died? All of a sudden his music became intensely popular, and people started to view him as a legend, the same people that called him a child-molester the day before. This is an example of what you are saying, but to say that no one is special or unique, that's pushing it way too far.

    You become a brilliant musician like Mozart or Beethoven, and prove that everyone can be as creative as them, then I will believe you. But that's very ignorant to say that no one is special or different.

    And also, not many true artists follow this "TV told me I'm special" stuff. That's not fair to assume that people are trying to be different and act out because of that. Before you say that you should understand how some of these brilliant people actually think.
    you didn't understand a single thing I said.
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  10. #20
    Ruler of the Stars Asterion's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5 sp/sx
    Posts
    2,334

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thea View Post
    Well in a way you can. That's actually how ENTPs operate. They see an idea that may be prospective (Ne), copy the main idea and good stuff out of it (Ti) and alter it (Se) as they need by adding the original (Ne) ideas, while working on the recognition of ideas (that must be Fi, but I would say it's Fe), is often forgotten or procrastinated, since it's the weakest of the conscious functions according to the function Model ''A''. So I can say that yes, ENTPs do copy things, what I've also seen in my experience. But let's not call it copying, but advancing stuff and making our lives easier
    Si senor, I think your spanish is a little strange, no?

    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    you didn't understand a single thing I said.
    Credit where credit is due, I'm surprised anyone even tried to unjumble your mess.
    5 3 9

Similar Threads

  1. [ENTP] Are ENTPs the ultimate idealists?
    By Blackmail! in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 51
    Last Post: 10-02-2015, 07:43 PM
  2. [ENTP] Are ENTPs aggressive/forceful?
    By substitute in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 147
    Last Post: 05-04-2010, 06:13 AM
  3. [ENTP] are entp's aliens?
    By velocity in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 38
    Last Post: 02-26-2010, 01:59 AM
  4. [ENTP] Are ENTPs the most likely type to cheat?
    By theplacesyoullgo in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 87
    Last Post: 12-11-2009, 07:39 PM
  5. [ENTP] Are ENTPs Attention Whores?
    By Mondo in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 48
    Last Post: 04-22-2009, 10:39 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO